ShopTalk Sunday: Stepping Up

by

Coming from a long line of (Seattle) firefighters, as I do (many of whom work on the off-shift to stack a little cash on the side), it was no small topic of discussion when the installation of stairs came up at home.  Usually during a coffee hour after a hard drill (or a working house fire) someone would say “Hey Cap! Thinking about new stairs, how should I build them?”

Well, then it began.  Because Pappy was also called The Encyclopedia by most of Bravo platoon back in the day.  Because of his encyclopedic knowledge of so many things.  (He would have made a better writer than me on the strength of depth-of-knowledge alone.)

I won’t get all the points, but a typical discourse on stairs would begin like this.

“What kind of stairs are you talking, Joe?  (for that was who asked)

Do you want “easy-walking stairs” or do you have to shoehorn the installation into a hallway – like with a pulldown ladder into an attic?”

Then doubtless, Joe – as ran his Italian sense of inquiry – would ask for it, “Tell me what’s the difference?”  Coffee hour would invariably run over a bit because stairs are complicated.

“Well, let’s start with the average human step and work in from there, then.”

I will spare you the entire history of walking and how typical stairs tended to reflect the nature of the land where structures were built.  In other words, on an Med coastline, where some cities are built literally on cliff faces, the stairs would be more suitable for goats.  In wide rolling English countryside, a much longer tread and a smaller rise led to more gentle climbs and descents for, among others, the debutants of long-lost eras.

The average human step is 30-32 inches.  Which means the ideal “easy-walking” stair should have about that large a tread for full steps, he’d explain. But, if you don’t like always landing (or pushing off) with one foot, or the other, a half-sized easy walking tread of 15 to 16-inches would be grand.

Rise is how high up you go with each step.  Relatively easy stairs go up 2-1/2 to 5-1/2 inches per step.  Not much in the way of building leg muscles, but very easy to walk and not change your speed much. Ancient stone masons would be judged for their acumen by how consistent their rises were across a large number of steps.

Modern times brought measurement systems. Along with far too much government, I suppose.  Which gets us to the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) and they have safety standards for stairs and two of these will apply directly to today’s discussion.

First, let’s tackle the Basics.

What’s a “Stair?”

Well, technically, it’s an structure providing a climbing path according to the following ascent angles:

\

As is now apparent, whenever you talk about “falling down stairs” a person of high mental acuity will assume the fall angle to have been 30 to 50-degrees (plus whatever the victim’s height was, of course).

We can then divide these “regular stairs” into something more useful to a builder or architect.  The green zone here is “easy walking” (though not to Pappy’s critical eyes) while the blue zone is “everyday, not surprising” country.  Yellow gets sketchy and you sure don’t want grandad or gramma running up and down them.  And if you build at grandpa’s house in the red sone, he’ll class you as “one of the greedy heirs” and out of the Will you come.!

Not to burden you with another Mason’s note, but the stair stringers you buy, at Lowe’s for example, involve about a 10-inch tread…

And with about a 6-1/2 inch rise and 10 inches of tread with 39 total inches will land you at? 33-degrees…so happens.

There are two ways to go – once you have the deck ready and some blocks laid around where you want the stairs to land.

You can go to Stair Calculator – Calculate stair rise and run at mycarpentry.com). Or, you can see how I work it.

Sadist, huh?

The Ure Cut-to-Fit

You buy your stair riser a little long.  And then, you move it up and down on the side of your deck to where the tread part is level. Like so:

Now at the bottom (in the shade on the left, there) you measure how far down the sringer has to go in order to be at precisely the right place:

Now, we set the combination square to the depth at the yellow arrow above:

…and we measure the tread of the stringer to the deck side landing.

6-1/2 inches, by golly.  So we put the combo square depth on the bottom of the stringer like so…and then cut 1-1/2 inches HIGHER because we will be using 2 by 10 treads.

Thus our “cut line” becomes the yellow line, here:

\
Thats a little on the “light side” for material, but we can improve on the durability by pre-drilling our tread holes.  And my laying a tube of “5-Minute Epoxy” on each of the two stringers for the bottom tread.

Tread Notes

Now step over to the back of the pickup.  Take a look at the 2-by 10’s we’ll be using as the treads.  Pressure treated and stained before install.

Notice the “end grain” – which is about the most important part of stairs or decking.  See the “cup?”

The Fine Homebuilding (dotcom) website (forum) explains: ” Wood cups in the opposite direction of the rings – so if the end of the board is smiling, the board will frown. I would recommend putting the rings’ “smile up” for the threshold so that if any cupping occurs over time, the edges stay down to the floor and the center rises.”

That said, a U-Mass webside claims “However, kiln-dried lumber is usually surfaced (imparting a true rectangular shape) after the lumber has been dried. A dry piece of lumber installed bark-side-up will cup to shed water from its surface as it gains moisture — because if the growth rings straighten out as wood dries they will curve as the wood becomes wet. So, the original moisture content of a piece of lumber when it is installed – and – the conditions to which it will be exposed after installation control a boards final shape.”

Southern pink-neck wisdom says it’s a 50-50 chance and you’re bound to get it wrong.  EXCEPT that in my experience, boards I used on the previous deck (center up, e.g. smiling) warped up on the edges like crazy (treated wood) so I’m going with “frowning” treads on this one.

This gets us to the discussion of the railings, I suppose, because they are ready to go in, as well. Prepainted  Again, they need to be flipped around for “closest match” and after some flipping and “end-for-ending” one pair looks great, the other not so much…

This gets me to the posts that will support the railing and they’re all stained, dried and ready for work.

These are store bought posts.  You can make your own (I have many times) but remember if you think “Gee, rough Cedar would last forever…”  Yeah, but you’ll want to run it through your jointer or planer to get a smooth surface if you’re going for a “look” with paint or stain and that means the steel post anchors will get sloppy and have too much play…

Speaking of Things to Take into Account

First thing:  When a first step (as it will be here) is very low (less than the 6-1/2 inch rise of the other steps) then the question is “Should the railing go to the bottom stair?”

Of course the knee-jerk is “Sure, why not?”  But, on closer consideration, you can mount a low stair from a wider range of approach angles and so mounting the (lower) first step on a narrow staircase (25″ wide in this case) can be easier with the railing at the second step up.

I will have to ponder this after walking the treads only a few times.  Oh, and the other problem?  (Glad you asked!)

I have read – and lived with – both the “rolled-over” stair tread top edge and the sharp, almost unbroken edge (if you don’t mind the use of the Machining term).

The OSHA view seems to be (though couldn’t find it specifically) is that the
“rounded nose stair is safer” because a shoe is less likely to catch a rounded edge and cause a trip.

On the other hand, out here in HinterWorld the hard reality is that if you’ve been over to a neighbors place and come home with cat/horse/dog/pig/and-or deer poop on your shoes, the unbroken edge stair tread is your pal.  (So’s the hose, so’s the pressure washer, and so’s the carpet dealership that still sells carpet scraps…

People have a hard time taking in all the facets of “good deck and stair building.”  Depending on how much you have done, it can come all naturally. But, if you grew up in a coop and were magna cum laude instead of making the “A-list in shop” then sometimes you need to leave real work to real people and practice a little of that “checkbook construction” skill.

As airline management taught me “We don’t have any problems more revenue won’t fix.”

Write when you get rich, and we’ll see what we can do about that that check writing skill…

George@ure.net

65 thoughts on “ShopTalk Sunday: Stepping Up”

  1. Many years ago my friend’s mother decided to have her kitchen completely redone, including the floor. The floor had some kind of plastic tiles or linoleum put on top of the existing floor.

    At the end of the kitchen there is the staircase that goes to the basement. With the new flooring, the floor was slightly higher, a little more than a quarter inch.

    That slight difference was an almost fatal mistake. This woman had been living in the house and going up and down those stairs for more than forty years.

    One day as she began her descent down the stairs she lost her balance, fell down the stairs, and broke her neck.

    She was paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of her life.

    It seems the slightest change in environment can be extremely dangerous for some old people.

    • Death and injury rates from falls are high for seniors. My wife’s 82 year friend fell down a flight of stairs at home 3 weeks ago, broke her neck and died. She was carrying something in both hands.

      Our balance is just not what it used to be. Number one tip from this senior reader is “always hold hand rails when descending stairs.” and “never go up or down stairs holding something in one or both hands.”

      Here are some interesting stats.

      https://www.cdc.gov/falls/data-research/index.html

      • Stairs are out to get you as you age…

        Are there statistics related to falls after people start wearing bi-focal glasses…

      • BIC,

        Funny you should say that.

        A couple in their sixties (let’s say R and S) moved out of my building last week. R stopped by to pick the last of their stuff, the plants on their balcony. He walked down three flights of stairs holding the plants in both hands. When he got to the bottom step he tripped and fell, but was not injured. If it happened on the staircase, he would have been in the hospital.

        He told me that S, his wife, while settling in at the new place, fell the day before, and hurt her knees.

    • Strong knotted rope suspended from above. Very safe feeling, prevents tripping and falling on stairs.

    • Tump’s first wife, Ivana, died in 2022 in a house fall going down stairs in her NYC residence. She wasn’t found until the next day.

      The “standard” size of the stair tread is WAY TOO SMALL for safety imo.. 10″ it NOT a good length for solid footing when descending. The old houses with the big stair cases used 14″ or so for their tread length and if I was constructing a new house that is the tread length I would insist upon. In addition the rise was a solid inch or two less, which is another much safer design. Of course doing those two things will mean the stairs will occupy more square feet on EACH floor, which Architechs and builders hate. Stairs are NOT made for safety anymore … but for economic considerations (ie: least amount of Sq Footage)

      I have reached the age that while I have never fallen when doing anything on stairs I now ALWAYS hold the railing when I am going down stairs. It is now such an ingrained habit that it is totally automatic for me to look for the railing when I exit a building and move to that side of any entrance /exit.

      If you have plenty of money and are getting infirm home elevators have now finally dropped in price such that they are a reasonable (expensive) option if the floor cross joists allow it. Always be sure to put a working phone in anyone that you install however. My grandmother spent oodles putting in one of those chairs that go up along the side of a regular stairway which allowed her to still safely access her upstairs in her old age, so those are another (expensive) option.

      • The stair chairs are life changing. Have a family member that has one. While talking with the installer he said there isn’t an issue with moving them, they can be reinstalled at a new home. This has battery backup good for about 6-8 complete trips.

      • I’m very much a fan of an elevator with an emergency ladder available for egress. It seems to be relatively simple to design unless you want to meet some code with a bunch of safety devices. That only really matters if you have guests that might sue.

        Speaking for myself, my own gut tells me when things are not safe enough. It’s rarely failed me. The real advantage of an elevator when big enough is to move heavy stuff between floors. Stairs are really just designed for humans and nothing more, and they waste an enormous amount of conditioned space.

  2. Yo Chief,

    Me thinks Ure measure Math aint mathing as well as it could..

    Golden Ratio ring a bell ? You measure in Ramens and Cubits ? Know what the Length of the Pace is? How about older Roman Pace length, obviously shorter. Whats a Furlong ? How many in a Mile ?

    Time for some Review of ancient concepts and understanding of Measurement. Attached is link to a very edifying interview tween Randal Carlson, Ben van Kerkwyk on Danny Jones.
    Break out Ure calculators for this one, its Fun, Easy and Entertaining, and Youse will come away with solid understanding of the Golden Ratio (s), or not.

    Peace

    ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMFvB1_2wbs

    • Railroad track spacing for ‘standard gauge’ was determined from wagon wheel spacing… which was determined from two hitched horses side-by-side. The space shuttle boosters were sized so they could be transported on standard gauge railroad lines. Thus were our rockets determined to be two horses-asses wide. Some things never change.

      • Most people do not know that the US standard guage was NOT a standard for a long time though it was the british standard.

        The Pennsylvania RR had a different guage than the other northern railroads (slightly wider 4′ 9″ – standard guage for most other northern railroads being 4′ 8.5″) and the old South used a totally different even wider guage even after the Civil War because of the size of cottn bales. (because of wheel and flange widths PA RR trains and cars could run on standard guage but were speed limited – 60mph sticks in my mind, not sure if the reverse was true)

        One of the more interesting items of RR lore is how after the Civil War the Southern Rail Roads finally changed their guage width to match that of the Penn RR so cars could be interchanged with northern railroads without having to unload and reload their cargo … and did the conversion of the entire region in 48 hours!! The change in the switches were reportedly the hardest part. Took tens of thousands of workers working over one weekend 24 hours a day to do it … but amazingly they actually accomplished in the goal of completely changing their track width of EVERY RAIL and switch across the the entire south in 48 hours (+ a little here and there).

        “After considerable debate and planning, most of the southern rail network was converted from 5 ft (1,524 mm) gauge to 4 ft 9 in (1,448 mm) gauge, then the standard of the Pennsylvania Railroad, over two days beginning on May 31, 1886.”

        http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1966/66-8/gauge.html

  4. fasteners? did ya get the good ones that won’t turn to oxide, outside in the East Texas rain

  5. I would highly recommend composite decking boards. We built our house in 2008 and we have a small deck on the back that we did regular wood decking boards but on the front of the house we used the composite boards. The composite boards still look like the day they were installed. The regular boards not so much.

      • Wood vs composite =4x cost. My deck had to be replaced. Treated wood lasted 15 years covered. 5 years uncovered. I did everything composite except the posts and hand rails. Had rails are rotted in less than 5 years. 4×4 posts are still good but I used metal stand offs at the base of concrete floor. All treated wood will be gone, rotted, in ten years or less. I guess I should have sprung for the extra cost but the wallet got too light. Deck looks like new though. Well better luck next time. Follow composite install instructions to the letter! The EPA approved treated wood is within a couple of years better than untreated. One last thing. Do not hire carpenters who consume mass quantities of adult beverage and build things. It never works out well.

      • I was going to suggest the composit hemp deck boards.. but because of its low cost..a little higher than standard weather treated but not 4 times the money.. saddly the plastic hemp composit wood isn’t available in the usa yet .guess they are afraid you’ll smoke it lol
        just another reason to legalize marijuana..I wanted to get the insulation. but it to is a felony to own and use in most states..
        just don’t buy any old jeans that were made with the fibers .. you could get stripped and they hold them for evidence on drug smuggling lol.. then arrested for indecent exposure.. especially if you go around commando.. lol lol
        cheaper to produce once it’s legalized then the lumber cutters will be as against it as the toilet paper king…make it even more difficult to obtain

  7. Plus one on the composite deck material. I use it for outdoor stairs, as it never bows, never warps, and it lasts virtually forever. I suspect I’ll need to replace the treated wood stringers underneath the steps long before I’ll need to repaint the steps. I also use two 2 X 6 for steps so the 1/8″ gap between them will allow water to drain, reducing the thickness of ice in freezing weather.

    • Can confirm. Pitter patter, lets get at her..

      In fact the Adirondack Chairs that the Amish make and sell by the hundreds every year in Lancaster, PA, are now being made out of composite deck material. Heavier, more expensive, but they look great for a looong time, a very long time.

      Worth it, as they make the better half Happy.

  8. Put this at the bottom of the new stairs – off to one side, of course…,
    .
    https://www.amazon.com/Scraper-Bristles-Removing-Construction-Enthusiasts/dp/B0D3DSJ6XC/ref=sr_1_21_sspa?adgrpid=1342504267246587&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lvbqlbgGqhls6O_ERmnT5VPxXhn4ZGgfteF2KTXUS0WHSVJ3iUzkH6vrxtbIxJExbVESo1Xsxj3MsYC1KFqQiqUz35Ny3y4UZ4rcO04UCm2yf0jUOXf24Nlr79SNY7q5e9gly7K_UYgV53Hs3t-56wyf6I5FgQEpC951WK-Ew8M4JPz4eIwP3UNWcQ5Naf9DS3QlgjMcsfp5cOaBH0fxfTsro31IyrHvuCYbfUspFx2bqRf_78h9YHi2YwSk9niYVtXe7BSrYZNxu4i_TJIUKxrH6B9WGv-u9XSyiTFSKvA.1Pvxm6-Y3sPyB-Ctf7HQg4GaxTL9UOgQPl_9y_EDTGE&dib_tag=se&hvadid=83906588611558&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=111215&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=p&hvtargid=kwd-83906872107341%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=24661_10680528&keywords=boot+scrapers&qid=1728838303&sr=8-21-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1

    • When giving an URL you copied from somewhere, you can delete everything after the question mark. It is sometimes much shorter and doesn’t reveal anything about you.

      Except your hair color.

      • That’s odd. I thought I did.
        .
        Maybe George will edit that for me – or just delete the post…, please.

        • There there are multiples on this topic, let’s just leave it. I should have edited the long url in the first place, I was just in a hurry and now – like an Orange Man Evil story – it has taken on a software life of it’s own. Wwhich is kinda illustrative of how idea circularity runs on social media and online discussions.
          Got come of that good bourbon handy?

    • Nice idea, but where I am, the scraping surface would need to be sharpened to cut off the mud. It really needs to be staked into the ground or it will just slide. I might just make a bigger one without the bristles.

    • https://www.amazon.com/Scraper-Bristles-Removing-Construction-Enthusiasts/dp/B0D3DSJ6XC

      Fixed that for you.

      One more time:

      When you paste a URL that’s really long, it is really long because it contains tracking information about you — both where you’ve been, and metadata regarding your search proclivities. This stuff shows up, and is accurate, whether you’re using a VPN or not.

      I STRONGLY suggest people sift a URL like this before they post it.

      Find the first questionmark,

      Click between the letter or number before it, and the questionmark (to place your cursor in that spot),

      Hit [Shift] + [End] to highlight all the tracking garbage

      Hit [Backspace] or [Delete] to make it go away

      Hit [Ctrl] + A to highlight the remainder of the URL,
      [Ctrl] + T to open a new browser window,
      [Ctrl] + V to paste the URL into the new window, then
      [Enter} to check the URL, just to make sure it is still viable and working.

      With a modicum of practice it takes about 3 seconds to perform all the above operations. The other forum or blog readers will appreciate not becoming a part of your tracking information, or having to look at a 400 character URL.

      YOU will be utterly thrilled, the first time you see a site password or your bank URL in the data, to know that you’ve just plugged a security leak which most people don’t know exists…

    • I forgot…

      Fixed it better:

      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D3DSJ6XC

      With some places, there’ll be an item description imbedded in the URL. When the place you’re visiting is Amazon, you can delete everything between the “amazon.com/” and the “/” before the “dp” also, as well as the tracking info (see the structure of the URL above…)

  9. How the !*$@!! is this legal? Answer- I guess Salvatore Verini was making his pay-offs on time:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/national-public-data-files-bankruptcy-months-after-data-breach-involving-3-billion-people

    I had a reported data breach about the time this went public, so I probably was stung. I have not given any data collection outfit any permission to access, store or distribute my identity records, so why is a psychopath stalker not liable 2.9 billion consecutive life sentences for aggravated identity theft, stalking by proxy, and ethnic hate terrorism ?
    Answer (again): I guess Salvatore Verini was making his pay-offs on time. So, the real question is, who took the money ?

  10. Hi, George,

    Stairs are a trip hazard, especially for us older folks. I have been in homes that had winding staircases going towards a second level, and the steps within the stairs had been built with narrow planks. They were hazardous going up the stairs and very hazardous going down those stairs. I am not sure if there is a uniform code for stair steps, if they need to be a certain length and width.

    Remember the sunken living rooms popular in the 1970’s? Those are trip hazards, too. And, please remove all throw rugs, no matter how beautiful they are, as these are trip hazards for certain.

    Most of my floors are planks of white oak. I had my wall to wall carpeting decades ago but had it all removed, due to having dogs. Just could not keep the carpets clean enough.

    I would ask older folks to be careful when walking on uneven pavement, like sidewalks and parking lots, and be careful negotiating around obstacles like parking barriers. I do not have stairs in my home, but I make it a point to use the hand rails when I am going up a flight of stairs or going down a set of stairs. Just helps with maintaining your balance. Thanks.

    • And all of that is magnified when one has hip and/or knee problems and pain. I’ve become acutely aware with psoriatic arthritis that I am not able to move freely any more. No twisting or spin turns. The hip replacement is due next month. Now my knees hurt, too.

      • I suggest if you decide to do knee replacements, triple-check the credentials of the orthopod. One of my elder brothers spent the last six years of his life, bedridden in a warehouse-type nursing home, because his knee replacements rendered him incapable of walking. Hips don’t seem to be an issue, but knees can get downright dicey. I think if I had to have a knee, I’d do Sinai, University of Chicago, or Cleveland Clinic, but that’s just me (NOT medical advise). I figure I’ve got 20 years left (plus or minus 15) and my knees are still solid, so with all the joints that DO concern me, none of them are knees…

        • My ‘orthopod’ is Board Certified. Several friends have ‘his’ hips installed and are very pleased. Now a bro-in-law was always bow legged and his knees finally gave out. Had both replaced, one at a time, and went thru hell in recovery. But he came out OK and is working out in the fields of his farm now. I’m told knees are much more painful and complex to recover from. We have good doctors here. Surprising for a remote island. And there is always an air trip 250 miles to Honolulu where some of the best in the Pacific are located.

    • There are code requirements for stairs in both the UBC and IBC. They’re a bit complex, and define rise/run limits along with a requirement for regular step increments and minimum width for certain staircases. Handrail requirements too. IMHO, a competent owner or builder should be able to use these as guidelines, but the “authorities” claim that they’re prescriptive.

    • Think about this for a minute…and all the other things that have been hitting the headlines lately..
      lets start with the WW of the NE

      https://youtube.com/shorts/CREwpSrBJwk?si=Shx9BPCFUiwxedOB

      https://youtu.be/hWdxgtlxpO8?si=shdf8SekbDt-Xh5L

      https://youtu.be/iJNmsLWRQ4g?si=gytV4LGdzl8RKUkw

      Isn’t that what Adolph did?
      the Nazi regime employed propaganda to impress upon German civilians and soldiers that the Jews were not only sub human, but also dangerous enemies of the German Reich. eventually convincing the public for control and to legally detain and use force to gain compliance.

      • Fingerprints and retinal scans, in some cases DNA sampling — y’know, nothing overly-intrusive… :rolleyes:

        • I entered the USA at Orlando a couple of weeks ago and went through the Global Entry line.
          At the Global Entry kiosk it first took my picture. I expected it would then ask for a passport scan.
          Instead, it said “completed” and I moved on the the manned booth where I was waved through. Never did show the passport. Hmmmm. Guess biometrics are better than I thought.

        • MarcR … the NOT looking at your Passport.
          They were looking at it on their computer screen.

          Every US Passport has a WiFi readable device in it that transmits your passport information (hopefully encripted but who knows) when it is energized by a remote energy source.

          Before you even walk up to the Passport /Custom’s person in the booth they are already seeing your data and picture on their screen. In addition that date has already gone through the computers that review every person going through the entry point, and it has Flagged your or NOT Flagged you for further questioning.

          I learned about that back about 2007 driving back from Canada with my sons at the Thousand Islands crossing in upstate NY, a low traffic crossing. When I drove up to the booth the Agent greeted me by name, and said “Hello” to my boys calling out their names too even though all of our passports were still on my car’s dashboard.

          This is a GOOD reason why you should keep your Passport, or Passport Card in a RFI protected covering … so people can’t read your data as you walk through airports etc.

      • All airline passengers are x-rayed every time they get on airplanes with a machine that effectively strips the passengers naked. And you didn’t think the TSA had a library of porno for every airline passenger, and didn’t use it as an excuse to roust passengers on future flights ? You leave a watch on one time, and the jackboots are laying for you from that point on. Same with last minute schedule changes. I would just as soon not subject myself to the jackboots.

        • I ALWAYS turn down that scan and insist on a manual inspection. There is some solid medical literature out of Europe that says those scans that are used by the US systems ARE BAD for your health, so there is a solid health reason to turn it down if you fly with any regularity.

          Only time I had to wait any length of time was once in Denver when they were backlogged with people turning down the inspection like I was.

        • I believe all the human backscatter X-ray units were removed and replaced with millimeter-wavelength devices. Of course, the old units were repurposed to prisons, etc. It’s possible and legal to opt out of the scanners if you’re willing to get felt up. If the scanner alarms, you still get to be felt up.

          The rules are somewhat relaxed for folks 75 and over as long as you can walk through a metal detector without alarming it. In some airports and other countries, the rules may be different.

    • If you can view the “news” and political claptrap in a detached and dispassionate manner, you will discover that everything Democrats accuse Republicans (especially Mr. Trump) of is something they, themselves are doing or encouraging.

      AFAIK posse comitatus still applies, but based on precedents set during the Obama Administration, and carried forward during the Biden Administration, rules, laws, and limitations set forth in the Constitution may be disregarded at will, because there are too few jurists who’re both honest and patriotic, to try cases, and too few lawyers who’re willing to go pro bono on a million dollar case because it is the “right thing to do,” to throw alleged “Presidents” in prison for treason.

      Trump may (or may not) have been right WRT Hillary (locking her away would do more harm than good) but he, or somebody, is going to have to have the DoJ arrest, convict, and imprison former officials, perhaps including former Presidents, for corruption, RICO violations, and perhaps even treason, or abuse of the Administrative will consider until we DO end up with a dictator…

      • We REALLY need for Trump to be elected, because we really NEED for him to sic RFK on a lot of people and pharmcos who have been very, very bad…

        • yes we do..but is the damage that’s been done over the tipping point already? if it is the only thing we can expect as the only positive is the worst depression in modern history.. the worst we can expect is beyond horrific.

          will they allow Trump to take the seat again?

          well with reports that yet another attempt has been made and knowing that they have spent ten years trying to destroy him and every agency has every appearance to have either been possibly complicit of what is going on or maybe even actively involved in some form or another… how many have seen millions of dollars donated to them or their families and friends.
          I don’t think they will ever allow him to sit in the chair again. and if he did with all that they have done would he go after them with a vengeance?
          they can’t buy him and he says and does what he believes in.
          not good not good at all..

  13. (“Pappy was also called The Encyclopedia by most of Bravo platoon back in the day. Because of his encyclopedic knowledge of so many things.”)

    OTFLMAO…..depending on what age I was there were quite a lot of different nicknames..
    poindexter… from the cartoon
    https://youtu.be/YfPKIr_IT5o?si=iZLEqT0mtM4V_01H

    Dex… from the Yellow books because I read to much..lol

    https://youtu.be/dq1x0VkAZYw?si=etX8P4hwRt5UrYhl

    there is one from my tablet I always have a hit list.. most important on top the regular then special projects ..check them off as I go. lol

    so I get it..totally..

      • I use to read the phone books when I was bored lol..you would be surprised how many Dr. jekyll and Mr. hydes there are…
        I got the Carla emery updated encyclopedia of country living in paper saturday.. I already had it on ebook but if what I think may come does.. ebooks will be obsolete..

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