I didn’t get into this on the Subscriber side this morning (Peoplenomics.com) but the Biden Administration’s inability to deal with something as simple as a high altitude Chinese spy balloon verges on criminal.
In fairness, my consigliere points out it was a decision presented to the Biden crew by the military/CIA. The White House went along. “Don’t put a political spin on this that’s not there,” he advised. But I countered with the political mode of the military and intel lately. Apolitical there? Not so much…
According to one report, the balloon is in the 66,000 foot altitude area and that’s clearly under American airspace control. CBS report. Suspected Chinese spy balloon moving over U.S.: What we know so far – CBS News. Or 60,000 feet in this report.
The problem is the administration accepted the military/CIA hands off to the force-down option because (supposedly) of “risk to people on the ground.” Poppycock at its finest.
The simplest way to bring down the balloon has – as far at the stupid (manipulable) public is concerned – only a single pat answer. Missile and resulting uncontrolled freefall.
Thing is, this is NOT the ONLY answer to the physics problem.
Actually, a few rounds of 20 mm aircraft cannon into the balloon itself could likely cause a slow enough descent to make a precision “splash” possible.
Simply wait for the balloon to drop (as its helium runs out) and plan the shootdown for when the balloon in over an area of (relatively) slow lower altitude winds.
We are left wondering how a simple physics problem. Rounds through the balloon’s envelope. Slow rate of descent, well-structured intelligence coup.
I’d remind the administration that right here in Palestine, Texas, we are home to the Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility which handles launches for U.S. government projects up into these regions. NASA – Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility, Palestine, Texas. Second opinions are out there, I’d wager.
If “the Math” is too hard for Washington, perhaps a call to area code 903 can get some help with good ideas and the ability to work out “bring down” rather than “shootdown.”
But, hey. We’re just old rednecks in the woods out here, right?
My consigliere holds the view there’s a bigger picture here, something thing the military/CIA types want China to see. Perhaps we’re hacking their backchannel from the balloon back to Beijing, command and control data? Relays to PLA satellites?
OK, maybe not something we need to get too exercised up over. But while my consigliere is right (Ure’s no Biden fan) there may be a legit reason to letting it fly.
Above our pay grades, but definitely spinning out of pure intel to pure politics. Because the Biden administration’s track record on honesty with the America public is, in my view, a little less than stellar.
How much less than Stellar? Biden administration tried to hide Chinese spy balloon from American public (nypost.com)
Worst nightmare? The spies already know what the balloon carries and don’t want it turned loose over American soil. Gotta wonder how Biden slept last night… He’s got an open borders bias everywhere, even overhead, seems to us.
Will he do something later TODAY? Biden ‘WILL try to shoot down’ the Chinese spy balloon over the Atlantic.
What could go wrong?
Comments welcome…
George@ure.net
Since it is a spy craft, and Joe does nothing about it, I consider that grounds for impeachment.
What if it is a vessel for spreading more virus. or at least a test run?
We are so screwed.
I’m of the opinion that it would make sense to down the balloon once it got offshore of Georgia within our coastal zone. No doubt all signals were recorded and possibly interpreted. Once down, it could be dissected and its intentions analyzed. If it contained anything toxic or pathogenic, it would most likely be blown out to sea, but in the meantime, we could capture whatever it was/is. I have no idea where the balloon is now, but I presume it’s offshore somewhere over international waters. That would make downing it more problematic diplomatically. The next one, if there is one, should be handled more forcefully, though its contents may well be different.
I believe it was a show of force or technology.. we as a country live the image that we are so far above the world technology wise..that very few even realize we sold ourselves down the river with the business model of stuff big buck billues pockets..
by demonstrating that they to have the technological abilities that we love to demonstrate to other countries it’s presence should be a warning for us to de-escalate any thoughts of our superior power..
one it was extremely low most of those balloons are flying 60 miles and higher on the edge of space.. spotting it would be like seeing a flea on the back of a dog from across the room.. it was only ten miles up.. low enough for us to discover it..it’s the same thing we have been doing there..
so I guess I’m personally not all worked up about it.. I see it as a warning kind if like a see we can do the same thing you can.
monkey were shows that we have the same type of balloons all over the globe. I believe the vent valve is on top if it’s similar to our balloons.. or a fast deflate yaw on the side or ends..
I’m going to guess that there’s as many up in the atmosphere of they’re balloons as there are of ours..
The balloon is apparently flying over US territory without permission, or is it? Is it a treaty verification spy bird, or is it a launch platform ? At that altitude, a launch platform of that size could launch a lot of HEMP missiles with very short flight times. Combined with sea launched HEMPS, the owners could execute a very fast surprise EMP first strike blanketing the entire continental US.
If the balloon entered US airspace without prior notification and authorization, then put the submarines and carriers groups to sea, and puncture the balloon. If it is a treaty verification bird, then stop the saber rattling.
Didn’t you get the memo about being led by sell-out, free lunchers, who are open-border sellouts who have only themselves and not America to look after?
OTFLMAO…..
and here I was going to suggest they check the family bank accounts for new donations lol lol
those balloons are common see them all the time… my question is..it was really low.. only ten miles up.. was that balloon brought down low enough to be observed on purpose.. and just how long has it been floating around up there and is it the only one..
my guess is it was brought down that low on purpose as a display that they to can do the same things that we do..
“and here I was going to suggest they check the family bank accounts for new donations”
There probably aren’t any, since President Creeper just mortgaged his house…
According to one MSM account I saw, Biden signed off on the shoot-down on Wednesday.
The over-flight treaties have been more murky in recent years:
https://www.orissapost.com/usa-withdraws-from-open-skies-treaty-read-full-details/
At the same time, we are expanding Open Skies with trading partners:
https://www.state.gov/air-transport-agreements/
And like I said, if it isn’t a treaty over-flight, then shoot it down.
My point of view is which is worse for FJB, his admin, and wethepeople?
Let this thing walze in and gather what ever it likes, or then to let it walze out of our airspace, doing nothing, and not knowing what it took?
I think the second my be worse, but is about the level of back one in the second BHO (or is this the second JEC) admin.
Possibly the balloon is filled with hydrogen. But otherwise yeah, this is an huge issue because it calls into question the ability of the USA to defend itself. Countries outside of the USA are going to ask themselves, is the United States military competent, is it capable?
It is not a question of technology. It is a question of will. There are two examples:
1) During the Boxer Rebellion in China, the Chinese army had the latest in weapons but the soldiers were firing over the buildings and the heads of the western soldiers to hit the “third eye”. This was an example of incompetence. Specifically a failure to adapt tactics to new weapons.
During the Taiping Rebellion, fought between 1860 and 1880, the deadliest conflict ever fought in human history, in which one third of Chinas population was wiped out, Chinese soldiers used muskets. The Chinese learned a lesson from the Civil War in the USA. During that war many injuries were to the legs and stomach. This is so because the musket is long and heavy. The muzzle starts to drop almost immediately causing the bullet to fall lower. But by shooting at the third eye above the enemy when the musket barrel falls the weapon is aimed directly at the enemy.
2) During the Napoleonic War the Spanish Army was issued the latest weapons. The French army was advancing towards a unit of Spanish soldiers. The soldiers fired a single round and promptly dropped their weapons and fled because they feared the sound of their own gunfire. This is an example of an Army being incapable of fighting a war.
The Chinese, Russians, and others as well as American allies are watching the response and if the USA fails to act they will draw their own conclusions.
They shot it down. The USAF displayed to the Chinese Russians and anyone else that it has the capability and will to defend the United States. Case closed.
“The USAF displayed to the Chinese Russians and anyone else that it has the capability”
The USAF displayed to the Chinese Russians and anyone else that it has the capability to shoot a balloon.
Fixed that for you…
I agree with the thought that the balloon could be a “Trojan Horse”. How to deal with that then becomes the question.
why would they need a Trojan horse balloon? when they can openly send an army across our borders and given assistance to relocate and transportation to the inner portion of our nation..
especially as we continue to move our military away from the protection of our country and deplete our defense reserves and bankrupt our currency.. it’s the poison pawn trap.. nothing new..im just surprised that this hasn’t come up before now..
A Public Library tracks books better than our government keeps an eye on classified documents.
Spy Balloons are allowed to enter sovereign airspace.
Cuts to our energy. Attempts to reduce public security. Criminalizing legal gun owners while illegal guns are use to commit crimes, injure and kill innocent people. On and on …
The gov. should know little about us because we are “private citizens” We are suppose to know everything about our gov because they are “public servants” – But everything is backword right now.
Too many inconsistencies against who we are … these days and weeks now, are very important.
We’re being set up. Frightening.
“But everything is backword right now.”
everything was flipped over a couple years ago.. and no one in politics is or has really shown any opposition to any of it. what was once immoral and unethical seems to be seen as honorable and just..
Re: Still Hunting Down Party Favours?
feat: Blowing in the Wind
Folks,
The White House website has been updated with President Biden’s 23 minute address to the Phillie DNC confab yesterday evening which Partiers frequently interrupted with chants of “four more years!”. Europe and the Servant of the People received not a mention. Clearly the left-wing commandos staking out the surrounding city blocks under banner of Roots Action and its “Progressive Hub” website have their work cut out to build up for a Comrade Sanders summit attempt.
Meanwhile back inside the big tent under watchful teleprompter eye, the Commander in Chief waxed eloquently of his 80 hours combined time as pres and vp (68 hours 1 on 1 + interpreter) spent in the company of President Xi. “Grasshopper” shared an anecdote of visiting the Tibetan plateau whereupon “Master Po” asked his counterpart to define America? “Possibilities” responded Grasshopper.
“The answer my friends is blowing in the wind?” A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Apparently the original report about Encino was destroyed on or about 1984.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=RDxOAAAAIBAJ&pg=6093%2C248587
Re: In the Blinken of an Island
feat: Power Brokers
Folks,
Breaker, breaker, do you copy? Can I float a balloon across your shores? Don’t shoot the messenger!
Sounds like the team called a timeout with the now-announced cancellation of a Mr. Blinken & State entourage junket to Beijing for defrost manouvers. One of the interesting aspects of the trip was to be the inclusion of the current Assistant Secretary of State who was previously Mr. Obama’s lead negotiator in the 2014 Iran nuclear deal.
Her Twitter account offers well-curated images of a steady stream of foreign dignitaries and the Assistant Secretary bracketing a portrait of Benjamin Franklin, America’s first foreign minister. You show them, woman! Lightning struck. The tweeted Jan. 16th international trip to Kiev meeting the Ukraine PM, deputy PM and the ceo of Ukrenergo the state-owned power company has not yet been updated to the State website. Apparently the US will be rebuilding the Ukraine power grid and integrating it with the European grid? Right now it can take limited EU power but not give back. Interestingly according to Wikipedia, the entire Ukraine power grid was entirely meshed with Russia and Belarus except for the 1.2gW Burshtyn Power Island complex which has received lots of love from Russian missiles. Reading between the lines of Wiki, a Russian breakers-off sooner than 4 hours before the special operation could have meant dire outcomes for the West. It’s implied that a pre-refugee flight Ukraine civilian population panic power draw could have collapsed the electrical grid from Turkey to Gibraltar and Norway to North Africa. One imagines that Mr. Putin may have brought this potential oversight to the applicable branch of the special operation planning committee.
Let’s give the last word to President Benjamin Franklin. “Instead of cursing the darkness, light a candle.”
Got matches?
Re: The Eleventh Kingdom
feat: Rabbit jumps from hat
Comrades,
Amidst gargantuan dangers, great opportunity lies ahead perhaps the likes of which not seen since China’s 10th Kingdom morphed into the Song Dynasty a thousand years ago. Its pinnacles of achievement were relayed to the uncivilized tribal savages of Europe seven hundred years ago by Marco Polo from the court of Kublai Khan.
Yesterday the Emperor spoke.
For a great many months the home page of state media CGTN has featured a clickable graceful image of birds in flight across tranquil skies with an advisory “seeking happiness for the people”. Yesterday it was updated.
It now features a painted image stating in English “The Song Painted”. There are 12 coins of which 6 are neutral and 6 are painted in positive feng shui colors. I put the image in the translator for a read of the Chinese characters which resulted in additional advice of:
“The 11 Painted”.
One imagines all have seen images of the white orb floating across America and rendered unto the seas off Myrtle Beach. White is the color of death and mourning in China?
Perhaps the Sabbath will not be a day of rest. Here’s DJ George with a sleeper from the back catalogue with a 40 year old hit from the defunct Red Rockers –
“China”.
Apparently the video for its namesake “Good as Gold” album was shot at the same locale as John Wayne’s “The Alamo”.
The military could easily have shot it down over Montana, which is as sparse a place as can be … but THEY recommended it not be shot down, for BULLSHIT REASONS.
I subscribe to the view that for whatever reason the Military AND CIA did NOT want to bring the balloon down for their own reasons, and that is why THEY recommended to the President that it NOT be shot down.
What are those reasons the Military and CIA wanted it to continue to float above the US? We can speculate all day long, but the biggest potential ones I see are:
1) They wanted to figure out the communications link between it and the satellites and also out to figure out how to BREAK THE CODE between the two (ala what Iran did with seizing control of a Predator Drone so THEY could actually land it at an airport in Iran a few years back – which THEY DID DO)
2) They WANTED the balloon’s sensors TO SEE something that they knew it would be flying over. What and Where? Your guess is as good as mine.
For most intelligence the Chinese can virtually do all the visual reconnaissance they want, or need with satellites. No need for a balloon there! Ditto with much of the electronic eavesdropping they want to do, though not all.
Speculation upon speculation as to WHY the Military and the CIA did NOT want the balloon to end it’s journey BEFORE it reached the Atlantic.
Clearly though the option THE MILITARY and CIA wanted Biden to pick was to NOT shoot it down. That indicates there is an “Intelligence” Angle to letting it float across the US since it would have been simple to bring it down – and NO the debris would NOT have been spread over 400 sq mi. … nope, it would have been over a few hundred square yards AT MOST. More likely a few hundred square feet.
Another question is why did China send the balloon over? On the face of it, it’s a stupid a provocative thing to do: surely they knew the balloon was going to be detected – as it has been, and it is the kind of thing anyone with any sense knows will be a diplomatic ‘incident’ – and indeed Blinken has called off or postponed his China trip.
(a) Was there information that the balloon was capable of capturing that their other spy systems couldn’t? If so, what?
(b) Was the very act of sending it intended as a message? Perhaps saying in a very concrete way that they can breach our borders?
(c) Was it to distract us from something else?
(d) There was a report of another balloon off South America. What’s up with that? Was it off course and intended to cross the US?
Lots to consider.
I’m assuming there is an attempt to capture and analyze the debris, it would be interesting to know what the findings are.
There is a ‘midair capture’ option available that most do not know about. Some of our spy satellites used Hi-Res FILM cameras for special missions, and would eject a film canister for re-entry at a given place. These would be scooped up in mid air by a c-130 towing a big ‘fishing net’ behind. I witnessed this happening once on Oahu when I saw a c-130 circling offshore for awhile. Then I noticed a small parachute coming down from high altitude. The plane swooped over the parachute and snagged it in the net, and made away with it. Amazing midair intercept!
2:08 PM CST – Breaking news is that the balloon has been shot down off the Atlantic coast (Carolinas). That’s like closing the barn door after the horse ran out: the balloon had to have been sending back images as it tracked across the country. The time to have shot it down was BEFORE it gathered info (duh!). So, was this just a show of incompetence? or what?
Think asymmetrical! Next? 1,000 floaties? They are cheap to build and even cheaper to float and go from point A to approximate B,B,C,… Great tactic to support a strategy. Very little info cleaned from 1st one, except that it downed east of Carolinas. No defense can stop even a few, but hopefully our resupply manufacturing can keep up.
So.., they waited until it was off-shore before they shot -it down., and now we can’t recover it? That raises a few questions.
day two of Thunder Dome EDM for me. on the pass gate. 3 times a fella wearing an Anthrax bapl cap tried to give his VIP back stage pass to sneak a young lady back stage. he must have missed the memo, there is a reason they nicknamed me Gandolf on Passgate. it’s not just because I have a white beard. it’s because of one line in the movie, “You shall not pass.”
atleast every girl got prettier. i givr him an A for effort. haha even though they didn’t get back stage. Anthrax guy got fired last night from working the show. good for him. maybe one of those young lady’s has a job and can take care of him.
edms being edms.
someone said you don’t smile. I said im smiling on the inside young lady. they pay me to do the job nobody wants to do. be an asshole. I’m good at that. she said I will smile for you.
I also gave a couple of mid 20s that I know who had taken various assorted designer drugs to their hotel last night because I didn’t want them to drive. they asked me to stay I declined and drove home. if my 25 year old self could see me now. hahahaha
hmmm. maybe I am maturing at 52.
seven. :)
I was asked in meditation earlier to que a song from We The People of this Unitied States of America to the Democratic Party. interesting to note who it’s created by, when I searched for it. not something I normally listen to. I like it. very much so.
with that,
Que for the Democratic party:
snitches
https://youtu.be/zYbAgqsERyo
beat by: Last Dude
mash up by: Last Dude
one day im in Kenai Alaska, the next day I’m in idaho. the next day I get invited to Exodus and Anthrax show at ~ The Paramount Theater ~, 2 days later I’m a judge at audition for a dance team, drop a girl off at 420 Wall Street, after George asks about April. next day I’m at the All Star Varsity National Championships cheer competition, park infront of a large door with a number 4 on it, go in save a cheerleader who is cheering for the team Hero, from falling off a 4 story balcony, “Save the Cheerleader, Save the World” Hiro phonetically said Hero, hurt my leg, have to wear a brace like Mad Max, then next week, I’m stopping a guy wearing an Anthrax hat from seeking girls back stage at an EDM called Thunder Dome.
in deep meditation, I hear que a song for the people of the United States of America to the Democratic Party. what song DUDE. HE says snitches. after meditation I look it up on YouTube and find a song called Snitches the songs beat and mash up is by Last – Dude
huh.
you can’t even make up fictional story’s this good this Brothers and Sisters. I can’t be the only one living in this realm. I sure hope I’m not the only one. this is what they call serendipity.
guess we will all see what is next. have a wonderful weekend. I know I will.
*tips hat.
Oh dear.
Andy, I’m not sure what a therapist costs but you’re getting a fantastic deal here at only $40 something a year.
I think it’s a bit strange that China’s surveillance balloons are running 30,000 feet under the balloons our own government is sending up to surveil US, the U.S. according to Monkey who reports on them in every update. Perhaps it has to do with the winds they’re riding on but it’s a steerable craft. They could let it ascend once over America one would think, OR the CCP wants Americans to see them.
We’ve had a weather balloon come down on the ranch once. Packaged it up and sent it back to the requested organization in Colorado. Other things coming down in the pastures are those mylar balloons with notes attached sent off from birthday parties and memorials. Never quite knew what to do with those so I tossed them in the trash. No return addresses on them. I guess whoever they were sent up for already read them.
I sent up a helium balloon with all my problems And wants on it. and said, you take all these. these are now your problems to fix. I’m going to go help someone.
4 months later I asked for a sign, Yo DUDE, give me a sign. and THE DUDE sent me back one with a smiley face on it right then.
now the Chinese are sending up Balloons?
huh. weird. maybe they read urban survival too.
make ponder about last night and Anthrax hat dude. not getting past me with the cute girls three times and my leg in a brace like Mad Max wore and being at Thunder Dome.
who run barter town?
then
bust a deal, spin the wheel.
followed by
two men enter. one man leave.
hahaha
ohhhhhhhhh George! how did Mad Max beat Master Blaster in Thunder Dome George????
a boatswain whistle!
could a clue to ……….. THE FUTURE!
Okay, getting tired of all the wagging dogs and tongues…
Over the past 5 years the Chinese have sent “weather balloons” over Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK/France/Germany/Western Russia, Columbia, Brazil, Panama, and the U.S. (and undoubtedly other places of which I haven’t been made privy).
If y’all are going to bitch about the U.S. not shooting THIS balloon down until it sallied past our turf, why are you not bitching about
THE OTHER 17 CHINESE BALLOON FLYOVERS OF CONUS?
Get over it, already. This was not a show of incontin er, I mean incompetence on the part of Creepy Joe. It was a display of incompetence on the part of the ChiComs, because they allowed this balloon to enter North America at such an altitude that it could be spotted by civilians, and police reports filed. The others they’ve sailed over us went unseen, and their presence is classified.
There are eight countries of which I’m familiar which have space-surveillance programs. We (and China, Russia, England, France, Israel, etc.) have long-since taken steps to ensure surveillance at altitude can only see the things we’d wish others to see. There is no flying saucer setting on the tarmac at Nellis… Those balloons do not have any spy capability that the ChiCom sats don’t already offer. What they DO have is the ability to make very precise mappings of atmospheric conditions which can not be made otherwise…
or the ability to spread B/C agents.
Remember, that “frightened, paranoid” newsnerd, whether it’s the breathless little girl on PBS or the pundit on MSLSD, is there not to proffer information, but to sell advertising, and the emotion they can convey, especially if they can “infect” their audience with some of it, drives the ad basis into the stratosphere.
I am with you @Ray…. it wasn’t a big deal at all.. I sure wouldn’t worry about it.. what they can get with a balloon they can get with their satellites..
China comes in #5 on the highest IQ list at 104.1. The U.S. doesn’t make the top 10. With more ‘clock cycles’ China can do things that are incomprehensible to us. We sit here in awe.
Here are the 10 countries with the highest IQ:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
I calculated (Excel) the world’s weighted average IQ of the 199 listed nations. The world is in deep trouble.
85.3.
Only 12 nations have an average IQ of 100 or above. 1/2, the top 1/2, of the top 12 are Asian.
At the time, the U.S. settlers and most of the early European arrivals all had IQ’s above 100. Today the U.S. IQ is 97 and in decline.
Probably all of the European nations that once had IQ’s at 100 or above -like Sweden, the U.S., etc., are now below 100 and falling.
The reason for the U.S. and European decline is easy, immigration. Almost all of the recent source nations have IQ’s below, even well below 100.
This helps explain why we now increasingly experience similar situations only generally witnessed in other foreign lands. We are transitioning from Western European societies, rapidly becoming non-European.
The falling IQ is one measure.
Since “average” for human “intelligence quotient” is DEFINED as “100,” I’d venture to say either the test is flawed, or whomever is giving it is estimating and extrapolating beyond all reason…
This guy is a lot of fun and a good channel to pass on to anyone that’s “suddenly” developed an interest in gardening.
6 TOP Crops to Grow at Home to Save You From STARVING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKbHqxI7VFA
I love this guy.. he has a blog or had a blog years ago.. and he has a channel just on cheese making.. fun guy to watch as much fun as Larry and his rain gutter grow system..
Since this has been all over the media for the past few days, even now as it has been shot down, it’s just a balloon and a story filled with hot air. Snowden already told us that everything we write about, or likely even think about, is recorded in perpetuity up inside the great cloud in the sky. No doubt China and most technologically advanced countries have access to all of this as well.
But, those damned Chinese with their nefarious, supposedly off course, balloon. Even though everything I have purchased over the past decades has been “made in China”, the “enemy” thing is ludicrous and hilarious at best. Oh, and NATO has military bases pretty much surrounding all of Chinese territories, just like with Russia.
This balloon story reminds me of the nonexistent Iraq WMDs. Not to mention the scamdemic con. Oh, and the ludicrous “official” 9/11 story? Smart people maybe should stop talking to other smart people. It’s keeping us dumb. I’m just a 77 year old raised on the northern coast of Maine, so what do I know?
Oh, George, glad you are out of the ice age! I like your blog a lot, do contribute, and have followed you for years because you are a very smart man. But, geeze, you even fell for the scamdemic at first.
The balloon may have been fake/Project Bluebeam test run.
“The balloon is there, just look up.”
For authenticity:
“Don’t shoot at Chinese spy balloon, South Carolina sheriff warns:”
60,000 feet is a reach too far for a Glock. What do they shoot in SC?
What can I say Lois but a huge..AMEN
Soros Doubles Funding to Left-Wing Legal Group Working To Upend Supreme Court
Progressive megadonor George Soros has ramped up donations to a group dedicated to packing the Supreme Court, signaling progressives’ determination to reshape the judiciary even after a string of defeats.
https://freebeacon.com/courts/soros-doubles-funding-to-left-wing-legal-group-working-to-upend-supreme-court/
Several days old, but had to be said…
It never cease to amaze me how people think more money will overturn Truth. The only thing money buys is an army to bury what’s true and promote what isn’t.
I’m sure it has full democrat support. hahaha.
fuck. I’m sure it will all get worked. out.
mayhaps Washington DC needs an ice storm too George. it seems you learn alot during those.