The Electric Future Quandary

by

Just 10-days to Elections and 26-days until the other turkeys show up.  And while we enter the solar shortage period of winter in the northern hemisphere, it’s a dandy time to look at energy prospects.

You see, a reader did some quickie calculations – that I haven’t been able to fault – which looks at highly-touted electric vehicles as THE answer to everyone’s climate worries.  And if you hug trees, ya’ll won’t like the data-based conclusions that come out of a hard look.

Throw in the latest chapters in the Adventures of Elon and the ChartPack view from Friday with new forward projections and a good time will be had by all.

Or not.

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98 thoughts on “The Electric Future Quandary”

  2. As the Bolero crescendo builds and we wait for the Dem red flag (I doubt the Pelosi incident is it), can one of my American friends answer a question for me?

    If we get past election day and vote counting days and days and there is indeed a red wave, can the Dems still pull something off before year end that prevents Republicans from taking power?

    Bob In Canada

    • I love Bolero it reminds me of birds in flight… Or humble bees… When I sit and read I love a little Clair Delune.. The gentle swaying of trees in the moonlight..

    • Bob, I believe the only thing which could do that is a war conducted on CONUS, and only then if the incoming “freshman” pols had not yet come to D.C.

      It is 55 days between Election Day and the swearing-in of the new Congress. The incoming freshmen (and their staffs) will have to coordinate constituent duties with the Congresscritters who’ve been given the boot, and their staffs. All that has to be done in less than eight weeks, so it is exceedingly unlikely that the incoming won’t be in D.C. by November 9th.

      Ergo, in theory it could happen — in practice, not so much…

      • Remember you can’t put out a magnesium fire with water and lithium explodes with any contact with water.

      • Flying overnight on a 4 engine 747 for a 2 hour flight, the Captain comes on and announces: “Ladies and gentlement, we have lost power in our #4 engine, but not to worry. We will just arrive 2 hours later than scheduled.”
        Another hour passes and the pilot announces they have lost another engine, but not to worry. We will now arrive 4 hours later than scheduled.
        Thirty minutes later the pilot announces that they have lost a third engine, but not to worry. We will be arriving 6 hours late at our destination. The fellow in the seat next to me says, “I hope they don’t lose that last engine or we will be up here all night!”

  4. Kudos to Stephen2 for his attempt. But something jumped out at me as missing: transmission losses of somewhere in the vicinity of 22% between generator and consumer. The situation is even worse than he envisions. See https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/total-losses-in-power-distribution-and-transmission-lines-1

    Also not considered was battery efficiency. One source suggests 78% overall. https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/total-losses-in-power-distribution-and-transmission-lines-1

    If I’m understanding the number correctly, it seems that to get 78 kwh to motors, you’d have to put 100 kwh into batteries. https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/total-losses-in-power-distribution-and-transmission-lines-1

    And I didn’t even get to the charger efficiencies. Certainly some E.E. types lurk here who could finish the equations.

    I might eventually be seduced into buying a plug-in-hybrid, but no voltswagon for me!

    • I think he envisions super-conductor wiring being installed globally, since it’s the same kind of “magic” that let’s EVs save the world from polution. (As long as you don’t count fuel rods and the US dependency on Russia which we covered offline. And you’re also right about CEF (charge/discharge efficiency factor) of batteries, but as long as the Climateers are making up magic all over the place, we figure on overunity batteries to make up for the grid losses, lo;

      • One little thing MarcR brushes on is how I point out charging issues to a non-STEM person.
        I ask them to look at 60 watt (thats a 0.06KWH) light bulb and consider how hot that filament is.
        Then I ask them to consider putting the 11 KW a day a Tesla needs (.22KWH/Mi at 50 mi/day) though a 1/2″ or so (4 ga?) electric cable in 10 minutes.
        How hot do you think that cable will get? That’s why the people I know with Teslas charge them every night for several hours. I need to ask one of them how hot does the cord get when he’s charging his car at night.
        That’s my Answer why I don’t think E-cars will work with built in Batteries and external Chargers.
        The numbers here are very close for me. My wife average about 250 miles a week in commute and the rest on weekends, about 12K to 13.5 K a year.
        Since I am an Engineer I work like most engineers. There may be some time at the home office putting lines on paper, but most of the time you are a site that is somewhere between a green field and an operating plant, or you are the staff on site to operate it. This may be near home, usually not. So my daily commute is only about 20-30 miles, but my weekend trip is 400 miles each way, sometimes biweekly. some times weekly.

        An Electric can’t do this. They brag about the range but the average range of electric is less than 200 miles, and only in West Kansas. Any more hills than that (I drive back and forth over the Cumberland Gap Every weekend) and range drops to less than 100. Tow something and its worse. Examples on the internet abound.
        A hybrid may work, but the battery pack for most hybrids is the passing gear. The little gas engine is to cruise the interstate.
        The battery pack usually does not have more than 50 miles range for driving without the gas engine.
        In town the hybrids are great. Stoplight to stoplight in traffic they run on the battery with the gasser only starting when charge is low.
        My requirements are somewhat like George and Elaine.
        I try to buy something at 50K and get rid of it around 250-300K. (With regular Oil changes and PM its doable. ]
        The Buick LeSlobber in the driveway will get its regular 5 K change of Mobil 1 tomorrow (290K). At highway speed in the outside lane in Cruise, it gets 28-30MPG. That’s an entire trip from plant to house on a tank with enough left for the weekend errands.
        To get that lifespan I do not think a newer 1.5-2.0 L Turbo anything will last, and I don’t think a battery pack will last.
        You will be rebuilding something halfway through the service life. This something will be more than the car is worth. Sorry its not in my budget to trade every 4-5 years.
        I think one way to make the battery cars work is if the anti-trust rules are overturned and all cars can unit around a common form factor just as dry-cells have.
        If A Battery in back underneath, the size of a large steamer trunk, with about 350-400 miles of range could be designed, and then a Jiffy-Battery pull-in and swap place were handy everywhere, it may make the cut.

    • “Kudos to Stephen2 for his attempt. But something jumped out at me as missing: transmission losses of somewhere in the vicinity of 22% between generator and consumer. The situation is even worse than he envisions. See https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/total-losses-in-power-distribution-and-transmission-lines-1”

      Hmmm.. ready for my decades old rant.. LOL LOL LOL LOL…
      the grid is made up for profit not for security of the grid…..
      so here goes one more time LOL LOL LOL on lamp posts.. put co2 filters , put airwells in the sw… and other area’s where water is a challenge.. promote solar to home owners.. if they give permission to use the excess they produce then freeze their electric rates for a ten year period.. at every sub station starting at the furthest point.. put up a solar tower.. forty foot wide on three sides.. and at least sixty foot tall.. v shaped cell alignment with and inverted trapazoid reflector in between.. my thought was 15 -30 degree angle.. but that is depending on the original setup.. this way no matter where the sun is in the sky the panels will get the full spectrum of the light.. Now if you want to increase the output.. ( not necessary..) then put a glass over each panel with a half bubble magnifier.. this does and will increase the panels output.. but not necessary..
      green scape the cities.. cities are what twenty degrees warmer with the concrete jungle.. so green scape it.. artificial trees.. a co2 filter will compensate for the loss of twenty plus trees depending on how you set it up..
      green scaping.. not only looks great but will increase food production.. the only issue is.. some kid may pick an apple or grape maybe a carrot.. so who cares let them graze all they want.. take enough home for a meal.. Now that is my dream.. been saying it for years and years.. and years..
      you drop the twenty percent power loss.. increase stability and less infrastructure changes.. can’t wait to get the brackets.. they fit them in where they can so they don’t charge me for setup fee and reduces their waste.. then I will share the cube.. another grand idea of mine that is decades old..

      • LOOB: you mention “you drop the twenty percent power loss.. increase stability and less infrastructure changes..” Stability is VERY important. According to a 2014 article, destruction of 9 substations could put the USA in the dark for weeks to over a year. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/could-terrorists-really-black-out-the-power-grid/241192/

        In the 1980s I taught a course on crime prevention through environmental design and used the book “Brittle Power” by Amory and Hunter Lovins as a supplementary text. If I recall correctly, bombing of five natural gas pipeline connections could put the USA in the freezer for months. As far as I know, that is probably still true. Another salient point from the book was that many components of the grid are essentially one-off designs and replacements would have to be manufactured. There are no warehouses full of generic giant transformers that could be used anywhere.

      • ““Brittle Power” by Amory and Hunter Lovins as a supplementary text. If I recall correctly, bombing of five natural gas pipeline connections could put the USA in the freezer for months. ”

        My point exactly @MarcR…. take the hundred year storm in Texas a couple years ago.. almost shut down the central USA and even impacted the East and West coast.. so what do they do.. put up multi billion dollar wind turbines and solar arrays all at the furthest point from the power plants.. good thinking on that huh.. where you put up an individual solar panel system on a home.. and if the power does go down.. the home still is generating power.. for the cost of one of those huge multi billion dollar wind turbines.. or the cost of the multi billion dollar solar array that also has to have boost stations.. to keep it flowing.. you could multiply the output potention thousands of times more than what they are doing.. strengthening the grid and national security as well.. the power may go out in one area.. but would remain on in another..
        we are what .. five hemps away from the stone age.. how much does a citizen depend on energy..
        “In the 1980s I taught a course on crime prevention through environmental design and used the book “Brittle Power”
        I will say that I would have totally loved to have taken your course.. I have been ranting about this since before I had to shave once a day.. the first time I seen a solar panel the mind started to contemplate its use..
        In some scandinavian countries.. they use micro power.. because they don’t have the room for all the huge power plants .. they did the tree or spider effect.. you still need the big systems.. but make it more user friendly..
        three years after I put our solar power system on the house.. there was a guy ranting and raving at me because he was going to have to change all his electricity in his house because of it.. he about fell over when I said no.. it has been working now for three years.. you haven’t had to do a thing..
        the propaganda that they push and the steady work at getting the stuff limited is amazing.. the head of the power company came and we drank several cups of coffee for a long time discussing this.. they bought their own bull shizt.. but the point he had.. was you cannot have free power.. no you cannot.. the cost of energy effects every aspect of our lives.. from the grocery store to the gas station to the guy cleaning our a horse pen.. Texaco use to have contests every year and way back when I was in grade school they had a car that got almost eight hundred miles to gallon.. won that years contest.. the technology is out there.. a simple look at a coleman white gas camp stove says it all.. I believe we should embrace all forms of energy except nuclear I am not a fan of nuclear power even if the US govt is trying to tell the indians that it is safe and healthy for them to store all the waste on their reservations.. . embrace the future of new energy sources.. like a permanent battery.. the thousand year battery.. anyone can make one.. most will never.. you sure won’t see any on the market.. but it is possible..
        the other scary part about your course and the actions of the US industry.. is way back.. I use to drain out the oil from electrical transformers.. ( day labor..) these then would be sent and refurbished.. OOOPS NAFTA sent it all to china.. and they are ten years plus behind on orders.. Now take Nasty nancy and slow joe and how they have done everything they could to tork off china.. threaten them disregard to their wishes.. we depend on them.. they also depend on our purchases..
        the solar tower.. dam I wish I had the money to build just one.. it would be a lifes dream from child hood.. green scaping won’t ever happen.. mostly because kids would graze as they play at the park.. ( people I doubt would graze.. I worked at one medical facility where the landscaper had this idea.. he had everything out there.. I would pick a few peaches and grapes cherries apples and apricots.. for my breaks.. and other workers would ask where I got such wonderful fruit.. out there take a gander.. yet no one wanted to go outside and spend time that they could be smoking to pick a snack for break)
        the bad part of that was the idea was the kitchen staff would have fresh vegitables and fruits for the kitchen.. just send out someone to pick what you need for the day.. and they would rather get a can and open it .. I believe the fear was that send some worker out and they would take their sweet time before coming back in to work.. extra break time LOL..
        because we are devouring crop land.. well that is a no brainer.. and the loss of trees is also a no brainer.. we need to compensate for the loss..
        so far.. I believe that the industry side of this will go to any lengths that they can to keep our grid in the business model it is.. even though it puts us in a vulnerable national security position of being destroyed and sending us to the dark ages.. the naked and afraid moments in history where we become the rodents trying to survive.. gotta keep the cash flowing.. who cares if vera and norm have any power.. or if the power is shut down for surgeries and vital infrastructure.. gotta make Billy big bucks more cashola LOL

      • “We assume you all know the wind leases are giving to key political donors, right?”

        YUP.. G a friend of mines father had what eight of the big turbines on his farm.. fifty year lease.. at twenty five hundred a month.. He was a big Democrat and very prominent with his donations..

      • That would explain why the multi-bazillionair on the other side of our South fence got a bunch of turbines on his place and all we got was a transmission line with perpetual access given to the power company. One not unsubstantial fee for damages and if the lines ever break and burn our place off the company can’t be sued. At least we don’t have the constant whoosh-whoosh of the blades over our heads but you can hear them a half mile away.

    • MarkR ….

      Shame on me! As I put together the numbers it completely escaped me to factor in transmissions losses, that I knew about. “IF” I had factored them in I would most likely have used 15%, which is less than your article, since that is what I have read for our utility (we are NOT in the west, so runs from generating plants to the use points are fairly short, say 100 miles maximum, 60 miles typical). That probably would have been too low for a national average though, which is shown by your linked article.

      Unfortunately it never crossed my mind to consider charger /battery charging losses. An excellent observation by you.

      Overall, rounding it all out, to just get into the ballpark lets increase the needed generating capacity by 50% (instead of needing TWO generating plants per about 1 million vehicles call it THREE).

      The point of my exercise wasn’t to be precise … just to get a “ball park” figure that was within about 20% – 25% or so of what was needed as the government moves to QUICKLY electrify the transportation network.

      ———————————-

      A number of years ago when they first started talking about this change over I did some historical research and that indicated that from the time that a change in the source of energy begins to be deployed until it is almost fully deployed has run about 50 years during the industrial age. This has been fairly consistent during several energy source change overs from water to wood to coal to oil providing the power for most things. An interesting “transition time frame” to keep in the back of one’s mind. The problem with the change over for personal vehicles from a historical perspective isn’t that it is happening but that they are trying to compress the time frame into too short of period.

      One item I did NOT put into my discussion for those truly concerned with the carbon output of fuel powered vehicles if people are so concerned about it : … WHY isn’t everyone concerned with moving quickly to ELECTRIFY the nation’s railroads?

      LOTS of talk about semi trucks but NONE about freight railroads!! (much of Amtrak is already electrified – where they own their own trackage that is 90%+ electrified)

      Our main system of powering our RRs in the US are diesel electric locomotives … and if one is truly concerned with carbon and getting away petroleum fuels then electrifying them would be create a very measurable reduction in carbon output and reduction in petroleum consumed. (the added benefit would be a LOT less localized pollution near RR tracks and marshalling yard in the big cities).

      3.9 billion gallons of diesel were used by the Class I RRs in 2020 (there are also a LOT of smaller RR operations too), or 81 million barrels of diesel fuel. (say Class 1 RR use is about 2/3 of the diesel consumption for all RRs +-).
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/1282117/class-i-rail-freight-companies-fuel-consumption/

      To calculate what it would cost to electrify the RR’s in addition to the equipment costs note that it is reported that there is 140,000 miles of actual RR trackage in the United States. Electrification of the US RR system IS easily doable over a 15 year build out period … IF the government would push for that.

      • MarcR and Stephen 2
        Thought I would mention that I live at the far north end of Jefferson County AL. At the far south end of the county is the Colonial Oil/Gas Pipeline and Tank farm that was hacked in May 2021. Think about how long it took gas prices from Atlanta and up the east coast to climb $1-2, and how long it took those prices to come back down after to ransom was paid to tee hackers.

    • To be fair, Stephen2 was “roughing it.” If’fn you want to see some serious equations, throw a problem like this out on an EE messageboard.

      I “rough” efficiencies by figuring a 20% loss every time a current goes through a transition (20% generation loss, 20% storage loss, 20% work loss, etc.) This is a very rough way of looking at a system design and telling without a bunch of calculations, whether it is possible for it to be a successful design.

      • See Bitcoin “Mining” – electrical geniuses.

        Solutions ! “Ohmies”, solutions 4 some of Ure modern problems..

        I would tell ya about sub 0, pressurized,super conductive, counter rotating, mercury “plasma” drives..but alas Im outta Time, so to speak.

    • BTW there is absolutely no reason for a “plug-in hybrid” to exist. It is a selling point which lets the automaker charge suckers a thousand bucks for a useless gofaster.

      • I learned something yesterday.. the dangers of plug in’s..MY neighbors child has a tow truck company.. they were telling me that they just had govt. come in and tell them what changes they want them to make to deal with tow’s for hybrids.. then they were wondering.. where in the heck are they going to get the cash to deal with the mandated changes that they want done.. the USA govt.. sure didn’t offer them any money to impliment these necessary changes.. and a bunch of the tow truck companies were all getting together to discuss the changes that could cost up into the millions not even considering the extra land that the govt wants them to buy to separate them.. these costs would have to be transferred to the customer.. I can hear it now.. WHAT my tessla didn’t cost as much as that tow…

    • there was an accident…. long time ago when they put cruise control on the cars.. a guy bringing illegal refugees to work at a plant.. put it in cruise then went in the back of the van for coffee.. LOL LOL LOL LOL who is at fault in an accident with a self driving car.. if the car is sent to pick someone up at a different address…
      the programmer.. the company that does the GPS coordinating.. the car company.. or the owner.. how does a police officer react if they go to write a ticket and there isn’t anyone in the car..

  6. “10-days out from elections and Oregon voters to decide on strict gun control measure: ‘People will not have the means to protect themselves’.”

    there is a dry cleaners in our small city in the wastelands of the USA… anyway.. I walked in and froze.. there in the doorway was a king cobra.. ready to strike.. froze solid.. LOL LOL then as I watched it.. it dawned on me.. there was dust on its head.. it was a stuffed cobra.. LOL LOL perfect deterrent..

  8. ‘Internet licensing’ was mentioned here in the past. Good work!

    Musk said he bought Twitter to accelerate the “Everything App”. The “Everything App” will be a digital construct of us.

    Musk is leading us into an Eco-system where eventually we won’t have access to resources outside the approved/accessible network. Once we’re in the ‘Everything’ Eco-system algos will probably spoon-feed a reality to us.

    “An everything app allows its owner to literally know everything about you.”

    What is an ‘everything app’ and why does Elon Musk want to make one?

    “A super app, or what Musk refers to as an “everything app,” has been described as the Swiss army knife of mobile apps, offering a suite of services for users such as messaging, social networking, peer-to-peer payments and e-commerce shopping. ”

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/what-is-an-everything-app-and-why-does-elon-musk-want-to-make-one/articleshow/95151368.cms

    • yep, and he will plug our brains directly into it and withdraw credits if we have a bad attitude at work…very CCP of him to not allow us to eat or ride an airplane/train/etc if we’re naughty.

      Just the fact that he has supported the illegal acts of the defense industry in Ukraine via starlink and has billions in defense/nasa contracts should be simple clues that he doesn’t love freedom, let alone freedom of speech.

      And, let’s not forget, he’s building blockchain into Twitter…or maybe people don’t know this yet?

      Everything app = Everything control.

      Musk will become known as the Beast’s bitch.

  9. Hi, George,

    It is remarkable how the Dems, including AOC, Biden, and others, are blaming the Pelosi attack on Trump supporters and the dangerous right wingers. However, the attack on a GOP candidate in New York by a man wielding a knife, the attacker was arrested and then released. The San Francisco police stated that they were working with the FBI on the Pelosi attack. Quite a noted difference. They are also saying the Pelosi attacker, while a nudist, was a January 6 person. Wonder what the evidence is on that.

  10. “Because, up until this week, it was a useful tracker:”
    – We have nothing in our trading arsenal, indicators or experience that can compete with Federal Reserve actions / interventions. When you can move over two trillion dollars into the market-place., at will.., in one day – you effectively shut-out traders and control., well.., everything. We may be able to show the overall direction, on a long wave count, over years., but trading LEAPS is an awful boring way to “play”. Personally, I had no idea that the Fed would, or could., do anything like that. It was a very real “show of force”. “Dominatrix of the Domain”, kind of thing.., and scary as hell.

  11. Ok.. boss and I are jellied in front of the boob tube.. watching prime..

    Best movie of the decade..

    Do you believe…
    It’s on YouTube to..
    https://youtu.be/FoIRQNHhT-k
    The next movie..
    Redeeming love..
    https://youtu.be/SagMK3jkzlI
    I would love to send a copy of that movie to a friend but I can’t.. it’s a prison so their rules are that
    I can’t send the movie but I’ll send a young woman the book..she was human trafficked. Told me her life’s story years ago.. I tried to get her away from the beasts that had her.. she tried moved even they found her and they beat her ..I got a call from an er doc from a big city asking permission to treat her.. anyway they had control of her. Evengually When they got caught she was afraid to testify because they threatened her and her family if she did.. so the courts threw the book at her and she will be incarcerated several more years she got 30 for being trafficked and scared to testify… anyway I keep in touch give her a few bucks for necessary items and send her books.. this book maybe to close to home .. but it’s a good one ..not everyone is out to hurt or abuse or use.

  12. Anybody know if Jerry Lee Lewis is alive or dead ??

    Wtf ??

    The media seems to be conflicting about it …. Just like everything else.

      • Just show how media seems to believe it’s self, without validation. – amounts to just rumors. He was sick, someone said he died, before he actually did and the rumor spread.

        In a world where truth is so important right now, the media flys with propaganda and rumors. That’s not cool. –

    • “Anybody know if Jerry Lee Lewis is alive or dead ??
      Wtf ??”

      LOL LOL who cares one way or another.. It would be the same thing if I passed on.. who would really care.. I don’t even plan on having a funeral.. I made the arrangements myself.. cremate me and just put my obituary at I went on vacation.. I hope the temperatures are moderate and pleasant.. and I love everyone very much and will miss everyone but hope to see them in the future..
      anyone knows me knows I have never been on a recreational vacation.. and will ask.. then go to my favorite spot .. ( Pizza Ranch) give the kids each a roll of quarters for the machines and a keg and have a good laugh.. eat some chicken and pizza.. etc.. maybe have a dj in and dance if they let the conference room be used.. my kids are all told there will be no wall flowers in this family.. you go to a dance you have fun and dance..dance your own dance.. sing your own tune.. enjoy life and one another..
      and if they don’t know how.. well while I am still here.. I dam sure will show you how.. the grandkids call it the grandpa dance..
      https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u0rL-gGYuO4
      https://youtu.be/W5kIPZzif2o

  13. Didnt someone on here say something regards British isle going “boom?

    Global grain deal off, tick
    Nordstream = specialboatsvc., tick
    Bioweapon Lab (s) targeting Russian caucasians, tick
    Not even the legandary” dude gonna be able to save the mad bloody king now..(“the sacrifice”) boom !

    Hears hoping the Irish and Socts are spared nuke tsunami’s

    Long WHEAT, CORN ? – rest assured coot long all accounts – CORN etf..not advice, common sense.

    * don’t forget mens room urinals in case nuclear weapons unleashed, they haven’t been hit – yet.

  14. Yo Jorge, no EV of any kind for me. Check out this little bus fire in Paris:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-yN8SugWM
    Seems to be a small issue with safety, when in the span of 10-15 seconds the bus is fully engulfed. Just think about this type of accident happening at 30 thousand feet. No bueno…..Think I’ll keep my 30 mpg ICE.

    • the tow truck companies are directed to let it burn.. don’t even try to put it out.. then keep them separated

  15. wow.really gone mad !!! ukranian matt drudge so upset what happened to the pelosi clan ! aka the sopranos . nancy and pauly

  16. Seriously I hate War’s.. my pipe dream is that all countries working together to solve some of the problems.. good lord knows we have a few..to keep everyone busy… can you imagine a world where for every negative we did ten things positive.. pay it forward..
    https://youtu.be/URwXr144hlI

  17. The present social system requires that the large power plants and refineries continue to operate, and expand to meet the requirements of an expanding population with expanding expectations. There are limits to resources, both natural and economic. While we can all live with less energy consumption and restricted travel, it isn’t necessarily going to be cheap or easy to achieve that goal for the masses.
    I already live in a smallish house with good insulation and an efficient heat pump. For me to reduce energy consumption further, it means either a new super-insulated or earth-sheltered structure with a large investment in solar and wind power. There are only a handful of add-ons which can reduce consumption further, and they are not cheap.
    My small SUV gets about 30 mpg overall. I can do better with a hybrid, but I can’t tow anything with a hybrid. Electric vehicles cost $$$$$. Right now I have the most efficient vehicle I can live with in a suburban environment. I would rather be driving a pick-up, but cost of ownership is now too high. My commute is the shortest it has been in decades, but working from home is not going to keep me employed.
    With civilization encroaching, I may one day in the near future be within cycling distance of a real grocery store. Which means an electric bicycle with cargo capability may become of use. But that is a clear weather warm day sort of solution.
    I applaud the people with the foresight, cash, and dumb luck who have careers and families that provide enough resources to support the techie conserver lifestyle, but I am left scratching my head as to what the rest of us will do. Apparently the Europeans are further down the road with this decision making process, and are now burning anything they can beg, borrow or steal in their woodstoves. I have that capability as well, but I’d rather live the smoke-free comfort lifestyle as long as it is feasible.
    As is usually the case, it isn’t the proverbial bolt from the blue that threatens to do you in, but the more mundane household economics and lifestyle issues.

    • n___: I totally understand your position. Similar situation here although I am retired, so commuting is not an issue. About the only additional energy saving moves I could make are relying more on ceiling fans and less on the high-efficiency AC. And stopping jet travel, which would mean not seeing family.

      You mention, “Apparently the Europeans are further down the road with this decision making process, and are now burning anything they can beg, borrow or steal in their woodstoves.” My son lives in Lund, Sweden and after the Ukraine war started I asked him whether he was worried about heat this winter. He said there would be no problem. His house, and most in the community, are heated from a central steam plant that burns trash. The only issue is that the Swedes are so efficient at recycling that sometimes trash has to be imported from Germany. He has 160,000 miles on his Skoda diesel and is eyeing a replacement, most likely a car not yet sold in the USA, a (used) plug-in Hyundai Santa Fe where the middle-of-the-night charging from (mainly) wind power would cover 90% of his mostly short-range driving. Unfortunately, Sweden is way ahead of most of Europe in energy foresight.

      • “His house, and most in the community, are heated from a central steam plant that burns trash.”

        We have those too. There’s not enough burnable trash to supply the biomass to keep them running, so we’re clearcutting forests to keep them fed.

      • “He has 160,000 miles on his Skoda diesel and is eyeing a replacement,”

        Bear in-mind, Seat and Skoda (made in Spain and the Czech Republic, respectively), like Audi, are Volkswagens and the Skoda oil burner is the same as that of the other VW A/B/E and MLB diesels — the VW TDi engine. At 160k, that engine is just about broken-in and its NOx emissions are now significantly lower than that of a new diesel, or a gasoline engine, especially when running on high-quality Urepeein diesel…

        H-K began selling both the Santa Fe EV and plug-in hybrid in the U.S. several months ago.

      • @Ray & @LOOB: Thanks, but . . .

        SantaFe: the information about the plug-in SantaFe may be useful to me, although I haven’t seen it here yet. My kid’s car is now 10 — I said “eyeing” rather than “shopping for”. He just put in a clutch ($2500 in Sweden) and is anticipating keeping it for at least 3 more years, then getting a used plug-in hybrid, SantaFe or whatever.

        Coolerado looks like a sophisticated swamp cooler. We live in coastal Florida. Nuff said?

        I

      • “SantaFe: the information about the plug-in SantaFe may be useful to me”

        I haven’t actually explored the H-K lines, because I’m not in the market. However, Hyundai is running the commercials on the grownup TV channels so I assume…

      • “Coolerado looks like a sophisticated swamp cooler. We live in coastal Florida. Nuff said?”

        IT IS… the trick is.. how it works.. you would die in a home with a swamp cooler in a humid environment.. but.. this one is a little different.. it is a indirect swamp cooler.. the moist air stays outside.. the cool dry air.. stays inside.. and in a high humid environment.. you sill have to have the dehumidifier.. but then convert that to an air well and you have the best of both worlds.. on big malls.. and businesses.. they use swamp coolers.. but its the reduction of the humidity by diverting it outside.. that makes is wonderful.. I would love one for my home they don’t sell them here though..

    • “with a large investment in solar and wind power. There are only a handful of add-ons which can reduce consumption further, and they are not cheap.”

      that is the issue.. people believe that the cost of solar is huge.. and yes it is an expense.. a new couch a mediocre used car.. but not a HUGE.. there are companies that will take advantage of you.. but a kit is not that expensive.. the last three kw system I had after rebates.. was a trip to burger king..
      I didn’t even take the time to figure out how long it would take to pay it off..
      the system I am trying to talk the boss into letting me buy.. ( she says no don’t spend that much money on it.. even if it will secure the house in a power outage..)
      https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-hbk-6-3
      and an additional.. battery bank..
      https://shopsolarkits.com/products/bigbattery-48v-griz-9-2kwh-lithium-powerwall

      with shipping it is a little over twelve thousand.. with the rebate your down to ten grand .. a hundred bucks a month in a loan.. in a house payment for a new home.. give or take twenty dollars for the addition on the home loan for my whole system if I had chosen to do it.. was going to be a little over ten dollars….

      what surprised me was I had boughten the same BS that they feed everyone.. and was shocked at just how much it paid for iteself.. it shocked the head of the power company to.. they sent people by three times a week for several months..
      I would get the ground mount they offer.. the nice thing about a ground mount is you can go out and sweep it without getting on a ladder.. the extra battery bank.. will keep the system running through the night..
      our system produces way more than what we use regularly.. the big thing for me is.. I don’t have battery backup.. so when the grid goes down.. the solar panels inverters shut down.. implimenting a system like this on.. once the power goes off.. your backup kicks on and your power continues..
      our system was on a ten year loan and paid for itself in under five with what we saved.. electricity is our lowest bill.. we still have to buy our power after dark.. and the connection fee.. I don’t want money for the excess.. let them sell it to the customer next door

      • instead I have to put in a bigger generator.. then figure out how to make gas for it to run..
        the generator is two grand.. but I still can’t talk the boss into me spending that much money on it..

  19. Police Dispatch Audio: Paul Pelosi When Calling Cops

    Paul Pelosi reportedly told 911 dispatch that the individual who allegedly attacked him with a hammer in his home “is a friend,” according to a police dispatch call early Friday morning.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/10/28/police-dispatch-audio-paul-pelosi-calling-cops-doesnt-know-male-but-name-david-he-is-friend/
    __________

    Pelosi Assailant David Depape Was In His Underwear When Police Arrived – Yanked the Hammer from Paul Pelosi

    SF Police say Paul Pelosi and the attacker were both holding hammers. The man waited until police arrived to attack, and he did it using Paul Pelosi’s hammer

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/10/weird-pelosi-assailant-david-depape-underwear-police-arrived-yanked-hammer-paul-pelosi/

    • LOL LOL sounds like a miffed love spat.. LOL LOL LOL.. or they tried to skimp on paying a sex worker.. LOL LOL LOL.. yet they are trying to paint it as a Trump bashing LOL LOL..
      OH how does that Poem go..
      https://youtu.be/odWgcxuBf08

  20. Democrat blows whistle on alleged ballot harvesting scheme, Florida opens criminal probe

    Former candidate for Orange County commissioner describes widespread vote trafficking operation in Orlando area, authorities see enough evidence to warrant criminal probe.

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/florida-opens-criminal-probe-democrat-whistleblowers-evidence-ballot
    __________

    Election integrity storm brewing in PA: Over 250k ballots sent to voters with unverified ID

    The Pennsylvania Department of State has provided conflicting guidance regarding the handling of mail ballots that do not have verified identification, state legislators wrote in a letter.

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/brewing-election-integrity-storm-pa-over-250k-ballots-sent-voters
    __________

    Biden, Harris To Campaign For Fetterman After Rocky Debate Performance

    President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris will head to Pennsylvania on Oct. 28 and make a rare joint appearance to campaign on behalf of Senate hopeful John Fetterman, a fellow Democrat, after his rocky debate performance fueled concern inside his party, reports and public records indicate.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-harris-campaign-fetterman-after-rocky-debate-performance
    __________

    As Governor’s Race Tightens, a Frantic Call to Action Among Democrats

    Democrats and their allies are pouring millions of dollars into late-stage ads and get-out-the-vote efforts to help Gov. Kathy Hochul as she fends off her Republican challenger, Lee Zeldin.

    https://archive.ph/QZbhu#selection-375.0-379.189
    __________

    ‘Going to be ugly’: All signs point to Republican landslide in Florida

    National organizations and donors have all but abandoned their candidates — setting off fears that Florida is no longer viewed as competitive. That would have dire implications for the next presidential election.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/27/florida-democrats-facing-brutal-midterms-00063666

  22. Wow some serious sheet in the Pelosi movie !!! Bit of a romp was it !!! Hmmmmm . Ukraine Matt not reporting!!! Democracy at stake . Ahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa matty

  23. Should. Pen a song to the wizard of oz song . We’re off to see the wizard the wonderful of the Ukraine!!!

  24. The electric future seems unlikely.

    I get postcards from the power company telling me I’m a good, low power user compared to my neighbors. The flattery. When I look out the window I notice about 50% of the neighbors use electric lawn equipment while I use gas. The postcards distort use.

    The Strategic Reserve is < 50%. The suburbs may collapse next month.

  25. Maybe nuke war isn’t a bad idea…it seem the US doesn’t have enough jet fuel to keep his escape plane in the air for all that long. ; )
    (It’s a joke people. Trying to add some humor to the gloom. Don’t come knocking on my door.)

    • I love that video..very well made.. what is funny is.. I know floor workers at the hospital that know before the tests come in what is wrong with a patient.. see it all the time.. but also know if you have something that the regular doctors cannot diagnose.. you get the college grad or the floor worker that is doing his internship..
      Which is why I have it set up so that when I pass.. they are to send my body to the school..a series of things that never added up.. you want to see a shocked doctor.. it is funny.. they always have the same what the hell expression.. so treat the symptoms not the issue.. it is out of their realm of knowledge.. the thought I had was some kid chewing gum and disecting would then go.. hey if he had taken an extra dose of vitamin A .. pops a bubble from his gum.. speaking about that I need to get my mints.. take the dog for a walk before I take my friend in to his visit..love the video

    • and the Democrats are innocent.. they never supported the billions of dollars of damage done by BLM and Antifa…..
      type in http://www.antifa.com once and see what comes up..
      there were billions of dollars worth of damage.. pillaging of good innocent peoples businesses and reports of rape and violence..
      https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/04/black-lives-matter-comparison-roils-court-in-jan-6-cases-515086
      the dual justice program..
      https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/opinion/cc-op-letters-011921-20210119-m2picvgf2zadrc27slorjesenm-story.html
      “While we respect the difficult role of law enforcement to keep our communities safe, we also expect them to fulfill their duty with respect for the rights of all Americans. House Democrats will not rest until justice has been done and will continue to insist on the truth that Black Lives Matter.”
      NP
      instead defund the police.. destroyed billions in infrastructure.. all of which ended the day of inauguration..
      Rmember.. you can love the direction these morons are pointing our country in.. in the end.. you to will be affected by the paths they are pushing for us all

    • the way they are taking us at this time.. the only reasonable outcome or result that could be achieved positively is the worst depression in the history of modern civilization.. the worst outcome is to push this ukraine issue to the point without a reasonable bridge of de escalation of destruction of the mass of civilization.. a bear cornered protecting her cubs will fight to the death.. use everything it has..so remember that as they push that bear into the corner further..
      You cannot prepare for that scenario.. cooler heads are needed at this time..

  29. But the riot financial damage does not come anywhere near the 150 billion $ in undervalued Black owned property:
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/06/03/when-black-lives-are-valued-property-becomes-worth-saving/

    a lot of the deaths were done by far right wing & personal agendas at the protests:
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/deaths-connected-protests-story-complicated/story?id=72724790

    Far right responsible for majority of murders:
    https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/new-adl-data-far-right-extremists-responsible-for-overwhelming-majority-of

    • That’s the worst excuse for criminal behavior I have ever seen! Because Brookings sez? roflol

      No cross examination at the Witch Trials – let’s round up up and check for soros funding, lol.

      Far right murders? Try selling that bullshit in Chicago, lol.

      You go, girl!

      • “But the riot financial damage does not come anywhere near the 150 billion $ in undervalued Black owned property:
        https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/06/03/when-black-lives-are-valued-property-becomes-worth-saving/”

        “That’s the worst excuse for criminal behavior I have ever seen! Because Brookings sez? roflol”

        I totally agree G….and think about it.. who has the money to send out people with cash to give to people to do destruction or to fight..
        You didn’t see any of the destruction in Middle class or prominent white neighborhoods.. all of it went down in their own neighborhoods..
        Just like rodney king.. they destroyed the businesses in their neighborhoods.. then twenty years later was questioning why no mechants wanted to put companies in their neighborhoods.. requiring them to drive a long way to buy necessities..
        I wonder how that goes.. Ray.. we are demonstrating tonight.. is it ok if we burn your house down and rape your wife and daughter.. … what part of stupid does that.. and yet they did.. it was all designed and financed by someone of means.. it takes cash to go national much less global all at one time..Then have Congressmen and women supporting the destruction of the nations most vulnerable.. that is sick in my opinion.. the same neighborhoods that they are moving illegals into..

      • What I am curious about.. is these political extremist leftists.. are they just stupid or what.. do they donate their children to the peodophile groups.. I know they are insane in Cali but my god.. don’t they see the whole picture.. Now I think all we are offered is crap to vote for.. and from what I her in the restaurants and stores is the vast majority think the same dam thing I do.. so I need to change my name..
        and remember to vote..
        for NONE OFTHE ABOVE

      • @LOOB

        “I wonder how that goes.. Ray.. we are demonstrating tonight.. is it ok if we burn your house down and rape your wife and daughter..”

        I’m not sure if you directed this at me or just used my name generically, but you couldn’t demonstrate at my house without trespassing, and if you tried to burn my house or rape my daughter I would shoot you, and if necessary, your 7000 closest friends. As for my business (when I had one)? I’d drop a few Clevelands on some 12ga steel sheet and foam insulation and call it “good,” then go on vacation until civilization returned. I don’t worry that much about business — if it survives that’s great. If it doesn’t, I obviously created it in the wrong place and I’ll choose more wisely in the future. I care lots about people but have no use for anti-civilized savages, and I live in a place where you can still shoot trespassers who come on your property with bad intent. Weapons and Molotov cocktails are generally considered [to be] “bad intent…”

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