Prepping for Heat Without Power

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Today, a prepping topic few people talk about:  In the event TSHTF, how will you “chill?”  Sure, we could ask hard questions like “Why are publicly owned companies giving away shareholder profits to “social causes?” But that might get folks riled-up.

On the other hands, in recognition of what is already a Long Hot Summer – we can’t change the season, or its duration.  But the “hot part?”  Maybe we can help.

First though, a number of “usual topics” to roll-through, including the morning news items and the ChartPack.

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33 thoughts on “Prepping for Heat Without Power”

  1. and here we go again .. another ussa perpetual fractal night .. with the help of professor dalio , senior professor moriarty and grand guru professor prechter .. all hosted on cnbccussa by cramer and the chipmunks

  2. i write this with a heavy heart. yesterday morning i viewed wunderground as normal. the case count was 106. we heard thunder about 5 p.m. and i went to wunderground again. case count 989! furthermore, one of the most important videos i have ever shared and a possible remedy. the shelf life of this diabolical chemical is 18 months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcSdF17Mnjg

    the nbc suits we had in the army were charcoal. we’ll see?

    https://www.gardenvarietyorganics.com/products/biogize-sd-granular-soil-detox-7-lbs-pail#:~:text=The%20best%20time%20to%20detox,with%20compost%2C%20manure%2C%20etc.

    • LOL. Deep South Homesteader is a story teller isn’t he? 7-1/2 minutes for him to get to the point but it’s a valid one. The only time I feed our cows is during the Winter and it’s straight from the feed store – alfalfa and cake. Goats clean up what’s left but there’s not much. Man-made chemical arrangements and genetic engineering may have short term profit potential but if we had a healthy economic system immediate results just to try and keep ahead of taxes and inflation (same thing) wouldn’t be such an urgent situation.

  3. How about taking your cooling pipe down a winding path between tree roots so that the air enters into the thing in the creek bottom, where the temp is a good ten degrees cooler? The slope would also obviate the need to worry about condensation – it would just collect and drip into the creek. That’s a pretty good run from your shop to the creek…

    • Couple of thing…
      one is the cost of pipe – for what you get…
      Second is I don’t know if there is a root-free route
      And the other thing – air in the pipe will cool and so it will naturally blow down hill – back toward the creek, so no natural going with the flow…
      I keep looking for free 12 ” pcv, lol

      • Whats the temp of that water in the creek?
        Have you thought of pumping it up to the house, and using a fan on a water/air heat exchanger (like a radiator) to blow cool air into the house? Then return the water to the creek by gravity.
        In the Southeast, if we have a spring, we sink a well into it and pump out into the cooler then dump back in. Cheapest cooler there is.

      • George, Don’t be too tough on Oilman2:
        ” – air in the pipe will cool and so it will naturally blow down hill – ”
        Not necessarily. If you are naturally venting thru the attic the buoyancy of the hot air will create a negative pressure in the house and help to cool air from the creek to flow uphill into the house (if the ‘stack’ is tall enough). The ‘Stack Effect’ has been used in natural draft boilers for well over 100 years. Watch out for snakes and other noxious critters though.
        ‘Stack Effect’ is also used for “refrigeration” in hot desert locations for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years. The minarets are really chimneys that set-up a draft and if a container of water is placed at the base food placed in the water can be kept at 40-45 DegF without electricity!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_effect

  4. G – U can keep trying to cool down the Uretopia Ranch, but the Cosmos has other ideas for Planet Earth.

    Grand Solar Minimum = smaller corona = MOAR Cosmic Energies pour into Every Body/Brain/Animal/Plant/InnerCore – this helps explain current crazy craze – look as though the “Elevator” is trying Real Hard to break us all down..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG7-YXVaZYk

    The Sun has been doing this crap for Ages – ancient Taoists recognized this phenomena and its Affects on Humans – wrote about it and how best to deal with it – which reminds me of Airplanes..Jefferson Airplanes/Grace Slick – “Remember what the door mouse said – Keep Ure Head”

    Is there a pattern to this sickness that CFR-hail zesus! dark&dirty types can recognize and take advantage of in the future armed with prior knowledge?

    1520- Aztecs
    1620- Plague -North Africa
    1720-Plague of Marseilles
    1820 -Corona -leads to Yunnan Plague
    1920 – Rona/Spanish Flu

    2020 – MANIPULATION Plague???

    Kinte cloth worn by particular tribe in Africa (sellers) – same cloth scarf that kneeling demonrats wore on the hill the other day – disrespecting EVERY Man & Women who has ever served our Country – sick is as sick does..methinks these people are sick but as the old saying goes – Once A Slave, Always a Slave!

      • You are absolutely correct as per usual Aol. I’m looking for the Mandela Effect on this one – you know – be the Change you wanna see! Peace

      • I thought it was “be a head” (for the young ‘uns, in the 60s that referred to someone dropping acid on a pretty-much regular basis).

  5. G, some people use corrugated metal pipe for underground cooling. The type used for drain under a road.

      • The only thing that’s naturally cool in Texas, especially out West here, is our ground water 150 feet down. Circulating that with solar power is far from free but something to ruminate on.

  6. The solar power rate article. I believe they are saying they pay power providers at a commercial rate and sell to residences at a consumer rate. It seems reasonable to include net panel providers in the provider rate they purchase power or at their cost to create. It does not seem fair to other residential purchasers to subsidize the folks with panels. Many of the power policies seem to favor those with more resources to afford the up front costs.

    Take subsidies for electric autos. Feds are subsidizing autos that cost 35K and up. Do those buyers deserve subsidies? I am decently well off and have not paid over 25K ever for an auto. Same for the panel installers, do they deserve a subsidy for installing panels? This is where policy distorts a free market. I get it though the government trying to move to renewable power, but seems like a bulk of this ends up with the better off parts of our populations. People that are believers in changing society to electric can certainly be early adopters, same as any new tech. Those prices are always higher until demand comes up from others and scale of production comes into play.

    I still think if we as a society want to reduce carbon, we figure out a way to fairly tax carbon through its life cycle. That way we have the market place decide the best ways to reduce carbon, perhaps it better through more efficiency or other methods, vs Feds picking tech like electric cars or solar.

    Of course I think Feds should be subsidizing nothing. No deductions for loan interest, family size, charity etc. If I have 10 kids, should I get many deductions? If I take out a giant home loan and pay lots of interest, why is there a tax break for that? Should others subsidize what are my personal decisions? These policies radically skew the markets and transfer costs from one set of citizens to another and make tax preparation a nightmare. But I know I am in the minority most folks seem to like Feds intruding into the financial decisions.

    • I totally get that, but they also aren’t charging commercial sellers a fee (sometimes 10% of my output depending on sun and before the logging). My view is OK, wholesale rates are fine, but no connect charges or taxes on said charges or on power sold…
      See, they’re like Marxists: Give ’em a nose in the tent….
      At commercial rates does part of my property become business? The power center in the shop a “business space?” Accelerated amort and deprec. rules? I mean sure…go ahead but give us the same tax breaks a business would take.

      • George, unless you intend to sell a LOT of power to the utility, it would seem smarter to just have a charger feed your battery bank(only if charge was needed and not available from solar/wind/etc). Then run the house off your own battery bank and inverter. Certain heavy loads such as welders and machine tools might be better off directly connected to the mains. That way, your power costs would be essentially the same as net metering, though you’d not be able to sell to the utility. You also would not need the setup required where I am, with two meters, differing rates and unknown expenses. I’m of the opinion that keeping your status as a “consumer” only and having your real power needs met by your “private system” is a better way. Since connecting to the grid is required for “habitablility” according to many municipal codes, you can always use that power as backup. Keeping the systems totally isolated, other than feeding the backup charger from the grid, should keep things relatively legal. Essentially, you’re feeding a whole house UPS. This is still new legal territory and the regulations are always changing.

        • Not quite the same NWM
          The reason is the sunk costs go way u7p. Essentially, by using the grid for peaking capacity I can use stacked 2.5 kw inverters – about $500 each back when – and to do otherwise each would be in the $4-5K range.
          The battery bank would need to triple…and instead of 5.5 kw of panels, we would need 10 kw
          And even then a genset (or grid) for peaking
          Net metering prevents this “resource escalation” so that homeowners can run reasonably priced, modest capital requirement balanced systems.
          The utilities want to shear sheep. m Wolves are like that

  7. Yeah, in the north latitudes you’d have to chop wood for 9 months a year to stay warm.I always thought this was interesting – a passive window solar heater. Keep all of your living in one room. Use mattresses from bedrooms as insulation.
    https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/diy-solar-heating-zmaz77sozgoe

    Now for cooling I love these ideas:
    *spring houses are an awesome concept – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_house
    *as is an evaporative cooling wall lke we used to use in greenhouses – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnLgL3KdXxg
    *and the arabic zeer works really well in drier climates, cheap to build – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNLPeb3qIhc

  8. Once upon a time in Texas and in desert climes folks simply
    soaked a bed sheet and wrapped in their nakedness . As the water evaporated they could sleep at night and chill out any ole’ time.

  10. Dude George – knew U could do the Snark every so often, but comedy gold?!

    “the end is nigh” – and the sky is falling no doubt.

    Dude – U be Fighting the Fed,and U B Fighting the Tape – both bigtime No No’s.

    What could cause such behavior in a well educated investor one wonders; disease, virus/sickness, alzheimers, pride, martyr syndrome, lack-a-nooki, cranial rectalitus?

    saint jerome kerPOWel will be buying US Equities before they let this stock market tank – after all we not only must maintain the incredibly wide Income/Wealth Gap, but we must Increase this gap – making sure the less fortunate know they are and stay that way.

    The great Karnac – “THETA coin”

    Sidekick Ed – What benefits from PRESIDENT TRUMPS desire for Greater Broadband Access

    Tiptoeing thru the Cyrptos.. cause there be landmines,poisoned punji sticks, claymores and every manner of money destruction trip wires laying about. Where the hell do you get Theta Coin, obviously not on the NYSE.

    Buybuybuybuybuy – anything..like 20 Year UST paper priced to Yield 1.22% – can U say preservation of Capital..rutrow

  12. Growing up in Wisconsin, I wanted to go ‘somewhere warmer’. Vacation drives took me across the Texas panhandle one summer and I remember how hot the VW van was as I drove in nothing but shorts… and sweat. Rolling down the window was even worse with the blast of hot, humid air. I didn’t think the Gulf area was a viable home consideration for me. I lucked out when I got a job in Hawaii.

    For once, this is one of George’s prepping topics I can ignore. Typical night temps at the Volcano ranch are the low 60s, and it rarely reaches 90 in the summer. Yeah, it’s a bit lazy on a warm day, but the ceiling fan and staying in the shade makes it comfortable. And the average temp varies only about 10 degrees between summer and winter. I DID install a solar powered attic vent fan to keep the metal roof roaster space cooler. Attic electrical work is only done in winter on cloudy rainy days. But heating/cooling ‘engineering’ is something that can mostly be ignored here on windward Hawaii island…. thankfully.

    • I spent a month on Ford Island when I was in the Navy going to schools there. Sure hated to leave. The last day I went up on the roof of the barracks to take one last look at the volcanic mountains and all the history that is Pearl Harbor. I still remember that to this day. It was the first place I could do a sustained run for any length of time (I’m a lousy runner/jogger). Pure pleasure, paradise on Earth. Just stay out of the volcano’s way.

  13. You guys just succeeded in reminding me how much I love modern HVAC systems and a well insulated small house.

    In the days of old, a screened porch on the north or east side of the house was the favorite hang-out in hot weather. Houses were miserable in the heat. The modern update was that same porch with a ceiling fan. A solar powered ceiling fan would be ever so green.

    In cold weather, a chair by the wood stove indoors was preferred. Small houses are better in the winter. No house without HVAC is good in the heat of summer.

    Have I talked myself into a screened porch, or do I spend a few bucks on a contingency screened tent? Maybe I just sit inside in the luxury of air-conditioning and think about it some more.

  14. Living off-grid for 22 years now, allow me to add the following;

    Any air moving/conditioning endeavor that creates condensation, also has the ability to foster conditions that allow the growth of the pathogens that cause legionnaires disease. Beware.

    As noted, moving large enough quantities of free air to create a usable amount of cooling requires a HUGE amount of air flow. Thus, large (expensive) pipes, very long manifold lengths, and the attendant difficulties in creating and managing airflow therein.

    That said, geothermal cooling (and heating) has matured over the last decade or so as to now be almost common place.

    The common method is to use water wells or deeply buried (4-6 foot) water line manifolds to transfer the relatively consistent temperatures to a heat pump for indoor air conditioning.

    The same affect could be achieved by using a buried water manifold loop….utilizing ground contour to encourage a thermosiphon flow therein.

    Benefits; cheap trenching to a greater (more consistent temp.) depth. MUCH cheaper pipe…pennies a foot. Better heat transfer using water vs air as noted.

    A simple air exchanger coil in the conditioned space with a 12 volt fan would complete the system. Sans an adequate thermosiphon, a 5 watt circulation pump would provide the needed water flow.

    Not that I had actually considered this before, mind you ;).

  15. Pushing air through a pipe would be terribly inefficient. Think instead of pushing either water or oil through the pipes, to take advantage of their much better ability to carry heat, then running the air through a heat-exchanger (got an old radiator laying around…?) Pipe should be no larger than ¾” and if plastic, should be thinwall, like PVC SCH-40, thinwall polypro, or PEX. Copper or aluminum would be far better than any plastic, and would give you a dandy ground, but if your soil is either acid or alkaline, you might outlive the metal. Pipe should be buried down at least 12 feet (so no Bobcat, you’d need a Cat excavator, instead), and you’d need a flat-out reliable circulating pump (and an access door or hatch, ‘cuz there ain’t any that’re THAT reliable.) Temps at -12 feet should be in the 50-55 degree range, year ’round.

    Essentially, what this is is a hybrid heat pump which, if engineered properly (plumbed with a sufficient length of pipe), will give you sufficient cooling for summer, and a 50° “starting temperature” in winter (so you’d need to raise living temps ~20° on those three snowy nights, instead of 40°…)

    Shoot, if’fn you’d started from scratch, you coulda built it under the PVs and had that ground shaded in summer, and ick-free in winter, and made it even more-efficient…

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